Why so much time before fx on return tracks kick in?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
marra
Posts: 291
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:08 pm

Why so much time before fx on return tracks kick in?

Post by marra » Sun May 08, 2011 6:39 pm

Hey!

Why does it take like a couple of milliseconds before the effects on my return tracks kick in?

Am I missing something fundamental about return tracks?

LeifonMars
Posts: 1104
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:48 am

Re: Why so much time before fx on return tracks kick in?

Post by LeifonMars » Sun May 08, 2011 6:53 pm

MBP OSX 10.6.8, Live 8.4, MFII, Evolver, Monomachine, Octatrack, APC40, Launchpad

marra
Posts: 291
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:08 pm

Re: Why so much time before fx on return tracks kick in?

Post by marra » Sun May 08, 2011 7:01 pm

Thanks man!
Last edited by marra on Sun May 08, 2011 7:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

LeifonMars
Posts: 1104
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:48 am

Re: Why so much time before fx on return tracks kick in?

Post by LeifonMars » Sun May 08, 2011 7:08 pm

marra wrote:Thanks man!
Don't thank, it's 15 pages of agony. Anyhow, answers are there.
MBP OSX 10.6.8, Live 8.4, MFII, Evolver, Monomachine, Octatrack, APC40, Launchpad

marra
Posts: 291
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:08 pm

Re: Why so much time before fx on return tracks kick in?

Post by marra » Sun May 08, 2011 7:14 pm

Reading through it now.

So basically this is a known bug / flaw?

I guess I gotta put all my effects back on the master now then?

I really liked the idea of putting all my effects on return tracks so I'd get more control over my mixing using sends. Plus I hear it's best practice to keep ones master as clean as possible.

keefbaker
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:06 pm

Re: Why so much time before fx on return tracks kick in?

Post by keefbaker » Sun May 08, 2011 7:52 pm

Closest to a solution I've found is if your machine can handle it, set the fx latency in preferences to the lowest settings.

This makes the automation more accurate too.

marra
Posts: 291
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:08 pm

Re: Why so much time before fx on return tracks kick in?

Post by marra » Sun May 08, 2011 10:42 pm

I was able to move the Output Buffer Size down to 1024 Samples without compromising the sound quality. The delay is still there, although a tad shorter.

I can live with the delay inside of Live, but why does it also show up in my exported audio?

LeifonMars
Posts: 1104
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:48 am

Re: Why so much time before fx on return tracks kick in?

Post by LeifonMars » Mon May 09, 2011 7:12 am

marra wrote:I was able to move the Output Buffer Size down to 1024 Samples without compromising the sound quality. The delay is still there, although a tad shorter.

I can live with the delay inside of Live, but why does it also show up in my exported audio?
Oh, that has no effect on delay compensation.

Here's what I do, and I do it on every DAW I work on: I render fx busses into audio tracks. Once they are audio tracks, I eq and edit them if necessary, and place them right.
MBP OSX 10.6.8, Live 8.4, MFII, Evolver, Monomachine, Octatrack, APC40, Launchpad

marra
Posts: 291
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:08 pm

Re: Why so much time before fx on return tracks kick in?

Post by marra » Mon May 09, 2011 7:58 am

What do you mean? The delay is still there whether it's an audio or MIDI track.

LeifonMars
Posts: 1104
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:48 am

Re: Why so much time before fx on return tracks kick in?

Post by LeifonMars » Mon May 09, 2011 8:11 am

marra wrote:What do you mean? The delay is still there whether it's an audio or MIDI track.
Yes, but once it is in wave-form, you can drag it the necessary amount of ms to get timing right.
MBP OSX 10.6.8, Live 8.4, MFII, Evolver, Monomachine, Octatrack, APC40, Launchpad

marra
Posts: 291
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:08 pm

Re: Why so much time before fx on return tracks kick in?

Post by marra » Mon May 09, 2011 10:02 am

Oh like that! I don't know. This whole situation got me down.

Khazul
Posts: 3185
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 5:19 pm
Location: Reading, UK

Re: Why so much time before fx on return tracks kick in?

Post by Khazul » Mon May 09, 2011 10:09 am

marra wrote:Hey!

Why does it take like a couple of milliseconds before the effects on my return tracks kick in?

Am I missing something fundamental about return tracks?
Check if you have a return routed to an audio track (rather than the master). If you do, then ensure that the corresponding send on that and other other audio tracks to which it is directly or indirectly routed is disabled.

Live will defer calculation of returns (and so add some buffer size related latency) when it thinks there is a potential feedback loop.
Nothing to see here - move along!

marra
Posts: 291
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:08 pm

Re: Why so much time before fx on return tracks kick in?

Post by marra » Mon May 09, 2011 12:39 pm

I don't, no

marra
Posts: 291
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:08 pm

Re: Why so much time before fx on return tracks kick in?

Post by marra » Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:44 am

Any other ideas y'all?

marra
Posts: 291
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:08 pm

Re: Why so much time before fx on return tracks kick in?

Post by marra » Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:20 am


Post Reply