Khazul wrote:@3phase - OK - you can perceive some differences while working with Logic and Live. Can you reproduce these audiable differences when you do an appropriate quality non-real time render or are they only receivable when working in the da and not after a bounce from each is played back on the same playback software (say bounced aiff played via itunes or something else that isnt either daw?).
Just trying to work out where the difference lies as what you descibe sound more like the effect of use a good low jitter audio interface with one daw and an audio interface with poor jitter in another - evidently not the case as you use an RME FF400 and (AFAIK) a DAW cant normally have any impact at all on audio interface jitter. If a DAW gets its timing wrong - it misses a buffer fill and thats a really obvious glitch. Same with data over firewire/usb etc - this either works or it doesnt - no degradation. BTW - I assume you are running the FF400 from its internal clock and that no external clock source (ie ext clock or any other digital input) is connected to it that could be impacted by the settings of another DAW or Live? Just checking to make sure there is nothing external and variable that can possibly affect what you perceive between the DAWs.
Other causes of what you describe might be SRC, bad oversampling somewhere etc (if we otherwise assume the use of identical plugins with identical setttings and identical resulting timings, equivalent levels and paaniing accounting for the pan law and any gain differences etc).
Try switching the strict timing option on in live and see if that helps (see the thread about it which I think you might have missed and for you may be worth a read).
If you are absolutely sure of a difference and the difference is in a render then you should post/submit to ableton as finally you will have somethig for people to analyse. If its only present when working and you can be 100% sure of no other possible causes then capturing that is going to be hard unless you happen to have another reasonable quality audio interfaces so you can capture via external analog loop (by all meanns try a digital loop, but you might not get a difference).
If you can hear it and its real - then one way or another it *will* be capturable with the appropriate technique that capatures exactly what you hear without the capture being influenced by either the DAW you are using nor its audio interface.
its defently not worth to waste more time in that.. the difference was so clear that there is really nothing to proove... just trust your ears..
just one anektode.. met yetserday another producer guy in a berlin outdoor club.. told him that i finaly go logic again.. he: you produced in live? i, yes why? he..thought you are one of the guys that is into soundquality..
lets say like this..outside of this forum nobody really doubts that there are better sounding daws out there. Its really just that teh ableton user has learned to live with that because it otherwise would screw his workflow when questioning the sound all the time... and its not like that that others keep the real attraktion of an analog synth recording.. the material allways suffers as soon it enters the digital domain.. and with live it just suffers a bit more..
does that really make a difference? when you like to mix and having something like a soundstage where you place audio in you are defently better off with other daw..but they are all crap in relaition to a real mixing desk anyway... so in the end of the day it really dont matters so much..just sucks a bit..
but there are so many things that suck in ableton live..all the humming and buzzing..and sometimes it even crashes or dont loads its own option texts.. ..what is a little audio degeneration against that... besides
maybe its really just more pure because the digital audio is not treated or dithred to work with 24 bit converters and therefore from a digital standpoint its maybe really more pure..just dont sounds good when it meets the speakers.. whats just the nature of digital sound.
face it..all this latency bullshit..sound degenration..losses thru wordclock jitter or format comversions.. the placement of soundevents on the timeline..rather random when the sound engineer dont really works hard to make events appear exactly when they was played..
when it comes to really record the performance of brilliant musicans without altering that, all this digital audio stuff is somehow bullshit.. lightspeed resolution is much better... and the little noise.. pfff. it really dont hurts the music as much as bad timing...
Beside..ther is no noise on a studer with dolby sr.. is well below 90 db andtherfore in realty cleaner than many digital recordings with theire converter buzzle...
however.. back to the logic work... it defently is some fun to hear rhe recordings a bit fresher and place the best ones in logic projekts where its easier to find them again than in abletons new screwed L8 hide the audio files in a folder inside a folder inside a folder inside a folder tactics...