How much can Operator really do?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
tinymachines
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How much can Operator really do?

Post by tinymachines » Fri May 27, 2011 5:51 pm

Hey everyone, I've been using Ableton for 3 years now, but I just noticed some of the capabilities of Operator. I didn't know anything about Frequency Modulation but then I bought Nick's Tutorials for Operator, and I feel like this type of knowledge comes naturally to me.

My question is, can operator make nearly any (MIDI) sound you can find other places? I realize there are some restrictions with only having 3 modulations. (only having 4 sounds isn't really a problem if you just play two Operators at once.) If I delve into Operator enough, can I make all the MIDI sounds that packs are selling? I'm already making some really cool things, I just want to know how far Operator can take me.

nathannn
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Re: How much can Operator really do?

Post by nathannn » Fri May 27, 2011 6:00 pm

i dont understand what you mean by can it make any "midi" sounds. are you talking about general midi sounds, operator patches for sale or, are you asking if operator can produce any sound from any synth.
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tinymachines
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Re: How much can Operator really do?

Post by tinymachines » Fri May 27, 2011 6:02 pm

I mean any MIDI sound, as in not sampled via an audio track. Yes, that includes almost every sound in other synths.

nathannn
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Re: How much can Operator really do?

Post by nathannn » Fri May 27, 2011 6:08 pm

i guess the answer would be no, it can not produce any sound.
it can get close to sounds like other synths but operator is an fm synth.
i find it hard to get convincing classic analog sounds from operator. but fm is not meant to sound like analog.
for digital and odd ball sounds the sky is pretty much the limit.
the only thing i find operator lacking is envelope break points.
The Push / Novation Launch Pad / Novation Launch Pad Pro / Novation Launch Key
/ Launch Control XL / Machine MkII / Machine Studio / BeatStep / Livid OhmRGB / Livid Code V2 / Apc 40 MKII

no computers or synths

20 Copies of Ableton Live Lite.

perplex
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Re: How much can Operator really do?

Post by perplex » Fri May 27, 2011 6:21 pm

it can't do ANY sound, but it can do a lot from kick drums to soft pads

kb420
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Re: How much can Operator really do?

Post by kb420 » Fri May 27, 2011 6:23 pm

tinymachines wrote:I mean any MIDI sound, as in not sampled via an audio track. Yes, that includes almost every sound in other synths.

Your statement is ridiculous. Midi has no sound. Midi makes no sound. So to answer your question, no. Operator cannot make midi sounds. Nothing can make midi sounds.
H20nly wrote:fuck Bitwig.

pulsoc
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Re: How much can Operator really do?

Post by pulsoc » Fri May 27, 2011 6:42 pm

What kb probably means to say is that midi is an instrument triggering protocol - it tells instruments when to produce sounds, it doesn't produce them. You probably meant to ask whether Operator can emulate any soft-synth - to which the answer is no. But it is pretty versatile.

Khazul
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Re: How much can Operator really do?

Post by Khazul » Fri May 27, 2011 6:46 pm

kb420 wrote:
tinymachines wrote:I mean any MIDI sound, as in not sampled via an audio track. Yes, that includes almost every sound in other synths.

Your statement is ridiculous. Midi has no sound. Midi makes no sound. So to answer your question, no. Operator cannot make midi sounds. Nothing can make midi sounds.
Not quite true - sounds really nasty when converted direct to audio 8O
Nothing to see here - move along!

kb420
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Re: How much can Operator really do?

Post by kb420 » Fri May 27, 2011 6:58 pm

Khazul wrote:
kb420 wrote:
tinymachines wrote:I mean any MIDI sound, as in not sampled via an audio track. Yes, that includes almost every sound in other synths.

Your statement is ridiculous. Midi has no sound. Midi makes no sound. So to answer your question, no. Operator cannot make midi sounds. Nothing can make midi sounds.
Not quite true - sounds really nasty when converted direct to audio 8O

Ok. I'll bite. & how the hell did you convert midi directly to audio????

I can't wait to hear this one!!!! :D :D :D
H20nly wrote:fuck Bitwig.

kb420
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Re: How much can Operator really do?

Post by kb420 » Fri May 27, 2011 7:01 pm

pulsoc wrote:What kb probably means to say is that midi is an instrument triggering protocol - it tells instruments when to produce sounds, it doesn't produce them. You probably meant to ask whether Operator can emulate any soft-synth - to which the answer is no. But it is pretty versatile.
With all due respect pulsoc, I meant exactly what I said. Midi has no sound. Midi makes no sound. Operator cannot make midi sounds. Nothing can make midi sounds.
MIDI ( /?m?di/; Musical Instrument Digital Interface) is an industry-standard protocol that enables electronic musical instruments (synthesizers, drum machines), computers and other electronic equipment (MIDI controllers, sound cards, samplers) to communicate and synchronize with each other. Unlike analog devices, MIDI does not transmit an audio signal: it sends event messages about musical notation, pitch and intensity, control signals for parameters such as volume, vibrato and panning, cues, and clock signals to set the tempo. As an electronic protocol, it is notable for its widespread adoption throughout the music industry. MIDI protocol was defined in 1982.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_In ... _Interface
H20nly wrote:fuck Bitwig.

Khazul
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Re: How much can Operator really do?

Post by Khazul » Fri May 27, 2011 7:08 pm

kb420 wrote:Ok. I'll bite. & how the hell did you convert midi directly to audio????

I can't wait to hear this one!!!! :D :D :D
About 25 years or so ago making a midi interface for my BBC micro on a breadboard - tapping the signal after the opto sensor was a good way to hear if it was receiving anything :)

There is also a circuit design kicking around the steinberg forums for converting midi signal to audio signal and back again as a way of testing the relative latency and jitter of midi processing in DAWs. One of the side effects of its use was someone decided it was a more accurate way to record and replay midi (as audio)...
Last edited by Khazul on Fri May 27, 2011 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Nothing to see here - move along!

henke
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Re: How much can Operator really do?

Post by henke » Fri May 27, 2011 7:10 pm

kb420 wrote:
Ok. I'll bite. & how the hell did you convert midi directly to audio????

I can't wait to hear this one!!!! :D :D :D
Soldering ?

pin 1 and 5 of the DIN 5 pin connector have the signal. It's more or less 5V TTL, meant to drive the LED in the optocoupler of the receiving device. you can simply feed this signal in the audio input of your soundcard via a say 10k resistor and you are set.
Sound boring, unless you do large sample dumps.

Robert

Khazul
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Re: How much can Operator really do?

Post by Khazul » Fri May 27, 2011 7:14 pm

henke wrote:
kb420 wrote:
Ok. I'll bite. & how the hell did you convert midi directly to audio????

I can't wait to hear this one!!!! :D :D :D
Soldering ?

pin 1 and 5 of the DIN 5 pin connector have the signal. It's more or less 5V TTL, meant to drive the LED in the optocoupler of the receiving device. you can simply feed this signal in the audio input of your soundcard via a say 10k resistor and you are set.
Sound boring, unless you do large sample dumps.

Robert
Actually Im surpised the folks into glitch music havnt been doing this - and yes - sysex support helps ;)
Nothing to see here - move along!

tinymachines
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Re: How much can Operator really do?

Post by tinymachines » Sat May 28, 2011 2:28 am

kb, thanks for trying to turn this into a pissing contest.
Others, thanks for consider what information I was actually after, even if I don't understand all the concepts yet, and answering.

kb420
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Re: How much can Operator really do?

Post by kb420 » Sat May 28, 2011 2:35 am

tinymachines wrote:kb, thanks for trying to turn this into a pissing contest.
Others, thanks for consider what information I was actually after, even if I don't understand all the concepts yet, and answering.

It wasn't my intent to turn anything into a pissing contest. I just stated a fact. Midi makes no sound. I would think that someone who has been using Live for 3 years would understand that, but I guess we can all learn something here.
H20nly wrote:fuck Bitwig.

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