How much can Operator really do?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
henke
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Re: How much can Operator really do?

Post by henke » Sat May 28, 2011 9:22 am

The question is hard to answer, or the answer is simply 'no'. Operator sounds like Operator and this is different from any other synths. But if you would ask me if a Yamaha SY 77, which is a later generation FM Synth, could be able to make all DX 7 sounds my answer would still be no, even if the architecture would allow to transfer parameter by parameter from a DX 7 to a SY 77. Still, the details of the implementation make them both sounding different. Sound is a lot like good wine in this regard...

Now, the Operator can do a lot lot lot of different sounds and you can certainly create 90% of all 'classes' of electronic sounds with it. It allows you to do FM, it allows you to do subtractive synthesis with four oscillators plus lowpassfilter, you can do additive synthesis / Prophet VS style sounds with it, etc.. etc... But there are two points to consider: The first one is, that an architecture of a synthesizer doesn't tell you a lot about how it really sounds. It might be that you simply don't like Operator, and there is no rational argument against this. And the second one is the interface. You might like or not like it, and this has an influence on which sounds you make or how deep you dive in.

Operator is quite a workhorse, you can run a lot of instances at the same time in Live, and you can do a lot of lovely sounds with it and if you dive in deeper you'll find nice details. In my current live performance set I, i would say 80% of all sounds are Operator, the rest is samples from various other sources including a lot of other (hardware) synthesizers. Operator in total contributed as many sounds to my music in the last years as all my other gear together. However, without the other gear I would miss some colors or some ways of working, which in return gives me different ideas and sonic results.

I guess my answer to your original question is: it depends on how deep you dive in, and it depends on how much like the results.

Robert

Hermanus
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Re: How much can Operator really do?

Post by Hermanus » Sat May 28, 2011 11:23 am

If your question was: "can operator make good FM sound like real hardware FM synth?"

My answer would be: "almost"

I got a Tx-802 [yamaha DX7 rack], Operator can do a good job but has 4operator and 11 algorythms
Dx7 for instance has 6operators and 32 algo'

Well I love operator and use it a lot.


You cant do anything with one synth seriously. You want analog sound, go for analog synth etc.

EDIT: your question really sounds like: "Can I make drum sounds with a piano?"

NO joke here

Saxer
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Re: How much can Operator really do?

Post by Saxer » Sat May 28, 2011 11:41 am

operator can do all kind of synth sounds if you think in categories like bass, pad, pluck, lead...
but it sounds different than basses, pads, plucks and leads from other synths.
even if there is a technical congruence in many aspects there is one big thing: different synths invite to make different kinds of sounds! just step through the presets of some synths, all libraries will have a unique selection of sounds even if they are similar to each other in maybe 80%.

you can play all songs and guitar licks on a strat, a les paul or an ovation. but you won't.

reeloy
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Re: How much can Operator really do?

Post by reeloy » Sat May 28, 2011 11:45 am

...each synth, at least good synth, and op is a good peace of software, can do some things that no other synth can do that good....simple as that...

If you're looking for perfect emulations of orignals you can stop dealing with operator right now...
If you're looking for your own unique sounds, you can go on with it forever....

condra
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Re: How much can Operator really do?

Post by condra » Sun May 29, 2011 1:08 am

Although I often say Zebra is the best synth ever, Operator is probably my favourite. It's certainly my most used.

It is incredibly versatile - yes it does cold, harsh, digital sounds and lofi dirt, but it also does haunting pads, rasping textures, punchy drums, and deep, gripping bass.

Despite what people say, I think it does analogue emulation pretty well, only really falling down at the point where you want that very distinctive moogy unison sound.

Also, Operator doesn't slow down my workflow: It's ideal for making quick patches. It's integrated very well into Live. It loads instantly, it's is not CPU hungry, and I can change presets quickly.

Operator is a brilliant synth. I would be lost without it. I would recommend it to everyone who owns Live.

Ben_Binary
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Re: How much can Operator really do?

Post by Ben_Binary » Sun May 29, 2011 1:39 am

condra wrote:Also, Operator doesn't slow down my workflow: It's ideal for making quick patches. It's integrated very well into Live. It loads instantly, it's is not CPU hungry, and I can change presets quickly.
I agree Operator is excellent.

BUT LIVE's preset change automation (chain selector) which i think is crappy crappy crap crap... is poorly designed for workflow and is ... broken !!!

For a company with such an excellent reputation for 'workflow' they sure know how to fcuk up the little things.

I guess it does help the Max4Live sales schmoozing :lol:
soundcloud Live 9 & Push / Reaper / Octatrack / Rytm / MicroBrute / Nord Modular G1 & G2 / Waldorf Rack Attack / Juno 60 / Monotron & Duo / SeratoDJ / Komplete 9 / OhmForce

agent314
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Re: How much can Operator really do?

Post by agent314 » Sun May 29, 2011 2:10 am

BUT LIVE's preset change automation (chain selector) which i think is crappy crappy crap crap... is poorly designed for workflow and is ... broken !!!
Works great for me. Have you considered the possibility you're not using it right?

Works with knobs and dummy clips.

Chain selector's a rack problem though, not an Operator issue

Ben_Binary
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Re: How much can Operator really do?

Post by Ben_Binary » Sun May 29, 2011 2:29 am

agent314 wrote:
BUT LIVE's preset change automation (chain selector) which i think is crappy crappy crap crap... is poorly designed for workflow and is ... broken !!!
Works great for me. Have you considered the possibility you're not using it right?

Works with knobs and dummy clips.

Chain selector's a rack problem though, not an Operator issue
Sorry for the early sunday mornin grumpyness!
Yeah I have worked some big videogame production houses as a QA software analyst,
doing AV system engineering now so I have satisfied myself that its an Ableton software issue.

Maybe my designs are too complex for Ableton ? ... but they shouldnt be.
And yes I reported the problem.

http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php? ... n+selector

BUT yeah OPERATOR ROCKS!!!!

Seriously deep and awesome instrument. Love it mega heaps n loads n all that.
soundcloud Live 9 & Push / Reaper / Octatrack / Rytm / MicroBrute / Nord Modular G1 & G2 / Waldorf Rack Attack / Juno 60 / Monotron & Duo / SeratoDJ / Komplete 9 / OhmForce

agent314
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Re: How much can Operator really do?

Post by agent314 » Sun May 29, 2011 3:43 am

I have satisfied myself that its an Ableton software issue.
What's the problem with it? How's it broken?

I read the first post in the thread you linked but I'm not sure what exactly isn't working right.

Is it that you can't see which chain you're on in the clip view itself?

EDIT: read further in the thread, but I'm still confused :(

Ben_Binary
Posts: 467
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Location: Australia

Re: How much can Operator really do?

Post by Ben_Binary » Sun May 29, 2011 11:43 am

The selected chain does not play audio = it doesnt work :(
In the pictures ... when i moved the chain up the list ... it worked.
Just an example - if it works for you then all is cool.

btw ... operator is excellent. gettin me some opr8r Raction
soundcloud Live 9 & Push / Reaper / Octatrack / Rytm / MicroBrute / Nord Modular G1 & G2 / Waldorf Rack Attack / Juno 60 / Monotron & Duo / SeratoDJ / Komplete 9 / OhmForce

Forge.
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Re: How much can Operator really do?

Post by Forge. » Sun May 29, 2011 12:42 pm

Operator is my go-to synth any time I want to create a sound in my head - and it succeeds in 90% of cases- but maybe that is just because I like the kinds of sounds it creates

if I want to just scroll through Presets until I find a "vibe" I like then I use NI Komplete

Excuse the self promotion, but I made a video series about how to use it (in my sig) and I think if you follow it you could make a big variety of sounds from operator.

beyond that "theoretical" point, it all comes down to personal taste

fx23
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Re: How much can Operator really do?

Post by fx23 » Sun May 29, 2011 1:05 pm

operator is a masterpiece. very intelligent gui and modularity, can do a lot of stuff in a quick way.
excellent for drum synthesis and other FM stuff. i use it for nearly all. also low cpu, no latency,
and strong stability. just wish now i could dinamycally recall snaphots from clips to aboid using tons of them.

some further implementation that miss a bit like phase offsets on LFO,pwm and maybe a 2nd lfo would be cool, but the onscreen space is not there, so...

hoffman2k
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Re: How much can Operator really do?

Post by hoffman2k » Sun May 29, 2011 1:13 pm

fx23 wrote:operator is a masterpiece. very intelligent gui and modularity, can do a lot of stuff in a quick way.
excellent for drum synthesis and other FM stuff. i use it for nearly all. also low cpu, no latency,
and strong stability. just wish now i could dinamycally recall snaphots from clips to aboid using tons of them.

some further implementation that miss a bit like phase offsets on LFO,pwm and maybe a 2nd lfo would be cool, but the onscreen space is not there, so...
I actually got a snapshot device for Operator somewhere in my unfinished folder. It handles the changing of the 190 parameters in a flash quite well. But there is a little drawback... We don't have API access to the User Waveform features. So its not possible to make a complete snapshot of all the sounds. Just the ones that use the default waveforms.

fx23
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Re: How much can Operator really do?

Post by fx23 » Sun May 29, 2011 1:40 pm

o yeh?, cool, got to have a look at this, can be really useful thanks hoffman!
btwn i still need to buy M4L, but i think ill make atlast the step with L9. should have a bit of cash soon.

actually i use usine to recall all my VST params and dynamically alter wiring/routing orders over my liveset, but i use a lot operator, nearly 50 percent, and i can't put operator in usineVSti as it isn't a real VSt, so this device could interest me a lot!

5meohd
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Re: How much can Operator really do?

Post by 5meohd » Mon May 30, 2011 4:00 am

why can't some solid analog sounding waveforms be added to operator in future versions of live?

I can agree with henke more with this idea: when judging/rating or thinking about live's native instruments you must include all of live.. with such care taken into the low cpu usage.. and the amazing implementation of racks.. these synths are soooo much more!

the same can be said for using a vst inside of live but its no where near as "easy on the eyes"..

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