JazzMutant - Lemur

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
markvan22
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JazzMutant - Lemur

Post by markvan22 » Mon May 30, 2011 7:43 pm

I know they stopped making these things, but is there any way I could get my hands on one? I've been contemplating on buying one for awhile and now I've waited too long. Any website? anything?

Thanks - Mark

bigbadotis
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Re: JazzMutant - Lemur

Post by bigbadotis » Mon May 30, 2011 7:49 pm

I have access to one that needs to be sold... it's in good shape and hasn't had a lot of use. It's one of the newer models (brighter screen + more sensitive touch... or something like that, can't remember exactly what the difference is anymore).

If you (or anyone else) is interested PM me. - Charlie

Hei©o
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Re: JazzMutant - Lemur

Post by Hei©o » Mon May 30, 2011 8:09 pm

I`ve been in the same dilemma 2 or 3 months ago, but figured out i do not need it for now, or even after. I`m still waiting to see where the TouchOSC and similar software is going....

however: http://forum.jazzmutant.com/
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bigbadotis
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Re: JazzMutant - Lemur

Post by bigbadotis » Tue May 31, 2011 7:11 am

For most people who would be interested in a Lemur (making the assumption that if they're going to shell out $850 they've probably looked into iPad options) TouchOSC is not really a replacement. No scripting, no physics, more latency, more jitter... there are definitely still strong justifications for the Lemur.

cids
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Re: JazzMutant - Lemur

Post by cids » Tue May 31, 2011 7:12 am

Maybe it's a better option to buy an iPad, cheaper and already a lot of software available...
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bigbadotis
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Re: JazzMutant - Lemur

Post by bigbadotis » Tue May 31, 2011 9:13 am

scutheotaku wrote: *Mostly* true, but when you take into account that Lemurs are now unsupported, hard to find, and usually sell for at least $1000 (iPads aren't $850 - they start at $499), and that iPads are multi-functional, are likely to be supported for a very long time, have tons of other similar apps outside of TouchOSC, has room for improvement (with new apps or updates to old ones), has a much better processor, a higher resolution screen (though admittedly a smaller one), and works flawlessly via Bluetooth, have accelerometer support (which TouchOSC has, and can be VERY interesting) it's not quite so cut-and-dry.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean on the scripting? TouchOSC (as an example) includes a full editor and can communicate to various computer programs via scripting languages like Python & Lua. Though the Lemur is definitely more robust in this area, for sure.

I would say that the Lemur is definitely more heavy duty and gig-worthy, though with the increasing popularity of laptops and the like in live shows, I don't think that's quite as important as it used to be.
What I was trying to say is that people who have done research and -still- want to buy a Lemur most likely already know about solutions like TouchOSC. And despite the advantages of iPads there are still some advantages to the Lemur.

My $850 price was a quote for a Lemur after looking on eBay earlier today. When I refer to scripting, I meant user defined scripting. TouchOSC has no user defined scripting whatsoever. You cannot, for a simple example, script a button in TouchOSC to change the value of a TouchOSC slider when it is pressed. The only workaround is to send a msg to a computer and then have the computer send a msg back to alter the slider (jitter anyone?). Check out Control (in my sig) for examples of what user scripting allows you to do.

The Lemur has great user scripting support.

Hei©o
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Re: JazzMutant - Lemur

Post by Hei©o » Tue May 31, 2011 9:47 am

TouchOSC has like 1/25 possibilities of Lemur. For now. No applications for iPad was done by "Lemur" guys and as they say they never will, but who knows.
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delicioso
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Re: JazzMutant - Lemur

Post by delicioso » Tue May 31, 2011 10:23 pm

Hei©o wrote:TouchOSC has like 1/25 possibilities of Lemur. For now. No applications for iPad was done by "Lemur" guys and as they say they never will, but who knows.
Bigbadotis' Control app has user scripting capabilities. There are other iOS control apps that do things like physics bouncing balls.

The "Lemur" guys have put out Liine Griid apps for Live on iOS.

Hei©o
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Re: JazzMutant - Lemur

Post by Hei©o » Tue May 31, 2011 10:47 pm

delicioso wrote:Bigbadotis' Control app has user scripting capabilities. There are other iOS control apps that do things like physics bouncing balls.

The "Lemur" guys have put out Liine Griid apps for Live on iOS.
"Liine is a collaborative project founded in 2010 by Etienne Noreau-Hebert, Gareth Williams, John Acquaviva, Nick Bugayev and Richie Hawtin" and has nothing to do with "Lemur" guys. (or does it?)

From Jazzmutant FAQ:

Is there a chance to see the Lemur code become open-source?

The Lemur application is based on a proprietary API (Application Program Interface), which Stantum is permanently developing and which we use for most of our on-going software projects. As far as we have no plan to make this API publicly available, the Lemur app is unlikely to become open-source anytime soon.

:|

I wanted to say that Lemour editor is far more superior than any other from iOS apps, but at this moment. Who knows what will be in a year or two. It`s not everything about the balls :)
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delicioso
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Re: JazzMutant - Lemur

Post by delicioso » Tue May 31, 2011 11:54 pm

Hei©o wrote:
delicioso wrote:Bigbadotis' Control app has user scripting capabilities. There are other iOS control apps that do things like physics bouncing balls.

The "Lemur" guys have put out Liine Griid apps for Live on iOS.
"Liine is a collaborative project founded in 2010 by Etienne Noreau-Hebert, Gareth Williams, John Acquaviva, Nick Bugayev and Richie Hawtin" and has nothing to do with "Lemur" guys. (or does it?)
Nick Bugayev was behind the Lemur Mu controller for Live.

Check out the Control app. It has JavaScript scripting capability built-in.

ctx
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Re: JazzMutant - Lemur

Post by ctx » Tue May 31, 2011 11:57 pm

Having used both the Lemur and a variety of ipad apps including Control extensively, I can safely say that the Lemur is still orders of magnitude better than all of them (despite having its share of problems).

I don't expect it to remain that way forever, but I have been a little surprised at how long it is taking for someone to make a good Lemur-like app. I would have thought that after a year we would have gotten more than we have.

There is also the unfortunate refusal by Apple to allow a lower latency, more reliable wired connection.

Hei©o
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Re: JazzMutant - Lemur

Post by Hei©o » Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:02 am

scutheotaku wrote:As far as I know, an app doesn't have to be open source to be released for iOS?

If we are talking about Lemur look-a-like app, i don`t think it will be in any way released for iOS, as Jazzmutant do work on some new projects, like they say. Hope it will be more price friendly.
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Hei©o
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Re: JazzMutant - Lemur

Post by Hei©o » Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:15 am

delicioso wrote:Nick Bugayev was behind the Lemur Mu controller for Live.

Check out the Control app. It has JavaScript scripting capability built-in.
Bugayev is a Lemur team member...?
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Hei©o
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Re: JazzMutant - Lemur

Post by Hei©o » Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:17 am

scutheotaku wrote:
ctx wrote:Having used both the Lemur and a variety of ipad apps including Control extensively, I can safely say that the Lemur is still orders of magnitude better than all of them (despite having its share of problems).

I don't expect it to remain that way forever, but I have been a little surprised at how long it is taking for someone to make a good Lemur-like app. I would have thought that after a year we would have gotten more than we have.

There is also the unfortunate refusal by Apple to allow a lower latency, more reliable wired connection.
Yeah, you're right - the capability is there, it's just a matter of when the app developers get there. Though in a lot of ways, it really depends on what you would want to use the Lemur for - if it's just simpler stuff, then I think the iPad would suffice (or even be more than enough).
Agree.
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delicioso
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Re: JazzMutant - Lemur

Post by delicioso » Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:49 am

Hei©o wrote:
delicioso wrote:Nick Bugayev was behind the Lemur Mu controller for Live.

Check out the Control app. It has JavaScript scripting capability built-in.
Bugayev is a Lemur team member...?
I dont know how you're defining "team member". The point is he worked on Lemur for Jazzmutant.

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