WTF is 5th note?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
perplex
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WTF is 5th note?

Post by perplex » Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:36 pm

I am not mozart btw, but wtf is 5th note? Everytime i audition a chord to an instrument that is labeled 5th note its way out of tune from other instruments and sh*t.

How do you properly use 5th note instruments? and is there a method to the madness?

it makes my dark minor chords sound happy

Rationalizer
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Re: WTF is 5th note?

Post by Rationalizer » Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:41 pm

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2beats
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Re: WTF is 5th note?

Post by 2beats » Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:46 pm

The short answer is the notes of scales and chords are assigned specific numbers. The fifth is simply the fifth note of the scale from which it comes. You can use this rad online tool to see what the 5th of any note will be. http://randscullard.com/CircleOfFifths/

Most chords are made from the root (the first note you play) the 3rd and 5th note. I actually just posted on the forum an article on the circle of fifths that might help you. http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=164963

Looking at the circle of fifths in writing your melodies and harmonies will help a lot.
Isaac Cotec aka Subaqueous
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evon
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Re: WTF is 5th note?

Post by evon » Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:52 pm

perplex wrote:I am not mozart btw, but wtf is 5th note? Everytime i audition a chord to an instrument that is labeled 5th note its way out of tune from other instruments and sh*t.

How do you properly use 5th note instruments? and is there a method to the madness?

it makes my dark minor chords sound happy

WTF :cry: 8O

Just remembered I promised leeds to be nice so I won't comment.
fe real!

perplex
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Re: WTF is 5th note?

Post by perplex » Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:57 pm

evon wrote:
perplex wrote:I am not mozart btw, but wtf is 5th note? Everytime i audition a chord to an instrument that is labeled 5th note its way out of tune from other instruments and sh*t.

How do you properly use 5th note instruments? and is there a method to the madness?

it makes my dark minor chords sound happy

WTF :cry: 8O

Just remembered I promised leeds to be nice so I won't comment.
well then that just makes you a bitch

3dot...
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Re: WTF is 5th note?

Post by 3dot... » Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:00 pm

5th is the same for dark (minor) chords... and bright (major)
certainly an áugmented 5th' will make them happy...
adds some dissonance...
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evon
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Re: WTF is 5th note?

Post by evon » Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:36 pm

TBH I would have imagined that you would have done the music rudiments before you purchased a DAW. And none of us got it easy here growing up on this forum, this is not Sunday school :cry:
fe real!

perplex
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Re: WTF is 5th note?

Post by perplex » Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:44 pm

evon wrote:TBH I would have imagined that you would have done the music rudiments before you purchased a DAW. And none of us got it easy here growing up on this forum, this is not Sunday school :cry:
i see my bitch comment agitated you enough to reply. However, instead of retaliating with anger, you stated a neutral response with an implication that I foolheartedly purchased musical composition software before I understood all the basics to harmonics.

If thats the case, then yes I took the plunge and decided to pick some things up on the way. Thanks for your contribution, or lack there of.

Damn it feels good to be a gangsta.

glitchrock-buddha
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Re: WTF is 5th note?

Post by glitchrock-buddha » Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:59 pm

perplex wrote:
evon wrote:TBH I would have imagined that you would have done the music rudiments before you purchased a DAW. And none of us got it easy here growing up on this forum, this is not Sunday school :cry:
i see my bitch comment agitated you enough to reply. However, instead of retaliating with anger, you stated a neutral response with an implication that I foolheartedly purchased musical composition software before I understood all the basics to harmonics.

If thats the case, then yes I took the plunge and decided to pick some things up on the way. Thanks for your contribution, or lack there of.

Damn it feels good to be a gangsta.

hahahaha!

How dare you think that you can purchase a DAW and attempt to be creative without first understanding diatonic scales!!!!! And if you don't know what quarter notes at what swing settings are equivalent to triplets, don't even bother buying a drum machine plug-in. You're not worthy!!!!!!!! ;)

Congrats evon on an Epic fail trying to be a forum hard-ass. :lol:
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sporkles
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Re: WTF is 5th note?

Post by sporkles » Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:55 pm

The patches that sound out of tune when you play a chord have (at least) one transposed oscillator, so that playing chords doesn't really make sense, because the patch will automatically play two notes (a first and a fifth) when you press a key. If you want to play such a patch as you would normally, you'll have to make sure you transpose that one oscillator either down to zero or up an octave.

evon
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Re: WTF is 5th note?

Post by evon » Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:01 pm

glitchrock-buddha wrote:
perplex wrote:
evon wrote:TBH I would have imagined that you would have done the music rudiments before you purchased a DAW. And none of us got it easy here growing up on this forum, this is not Sunday school :cry:
i see my bitch comment agitated you enough to reply. However, instead of retaliating with anger, you stated a neutral response with an implication that I foolheartedly purchased musical composition software before I understood all the basics to harmonics.

If thats the case, then yes I took the plunge and decided to pick some things up on the way. Thanks for your contribution, or lack there of.

Damn it feels good to be a gangsta.



hahahaha!

How dare you think that you can purchase a DAW and attempt to be creative without first understanding diatonic scales!!!!! And if you don't know what quarter notes at what swing settings are equivalent to triplets, don't even bother buying a drum machine plug-in. You're not worthy!!!!!!!! ;)

Congrats evon on an Epic fail trying to be a forum hard-ass. :lol:
Sorry my friend if I intimidated you..you can be the hard-ass if you like. I will just continue to express myself as best I feel and enjoy myself.
Hope you know your scales too.
fe real!

crumhorn
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Re: WTF is 5th note?

Post by crumhorn » Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:25 pm

sporkles wrote:The patches that sound out of tune when you play a chord have (at least) one transposed oscillator, so that playing chords doesn't really make sense, because the patch will automatically play two notes (a first and a fifth) when you press a key. If you want to play such a patch as you would normally, you'll have to make sure you transpose that one oscillator either down to zero or up an octave.
First prize for being the only person to think about what the question actually meant!
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(Allow me to plug my guitar scale visualiser thingy - www.fretlearner.com)

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Re: WTF is 5th note?

Post by glitchrock-buddha » Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:11 pm

sporkles wrote:The patches that sound out of tune when you play a chord have (at least) one transposed oscillator, so that playing chords doesn't really make sense, because the patch will automatically play two notes (a first and a fifth) when you press a key. If you want to play such a patch as you would normally, you'll have to make sure you transpose that one oscillator either down to zero or up an octave.
Exactly.

Perplex, a 5th chord is simply a two-note chord using the root and the fifth, as was said. The fifth is typical 7 semi-tones above the root. So whenever you play a patch that is labelled as "5th", pressing one key will trigger the note that you played as well as another note 7 semi-tones higher. So imagine you were playing one of your minor chords. The minor chord might be for example A/C/E (=Root/3rd/5th on an A minor scale). An A 5th chord would simply be A with an E (7 semi-tones higher than A). So a patch on a synth labelled as 5th would play A and E together when you hit just an A. Soooo... if you played a minor chord on one of these patches, then you're actually playing the three notes you played but the synth is also triggering notes that are 7 semi-tones higher for each note you played. So you're hearing A/C/E, but also E/G/B so suddenly you got a seventh in there (G) for a little bluesy tone and a 9th (B - same note as 2nd but higher) for some unresolved harmonic fluffiness. A weird chord to be sure. ;)
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perplex
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Re: WTF is 5th note?

Post by perplex » Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:36 pm

thanks guys. i definitely get it now. its always something i wondered but never really looked up on. and all of a sudden i just asked. i admit it I could have asked in better fashion than "Wtf is a 5th note" lol

2beats
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Re: WTF is 5th note?

Post by 2beats » Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:06 am

Nothing wrong with asking... Only thing you can do wrong is to not ask.

Glad you got the info you were looking for.
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