Native Instruments discontinues Kore

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Machinesworking
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Re: Native Instruments discontinues Kore

Post by Machinesworking » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:12 pm

3dot... wrote:hmmm..but..
if they make the 'kore' controller compatible with the 'Maschine' software...
that could solve it..no?
Would be nice, but there's little chance that they'll do it. NI haven't ever been the kind of company that care one bit about abandoned software, I see no financial reason why they would keep a hardware controller compatible with their software when they tie that software to another hardware controller, it's I would bet in their opinion too little benefit to them and too much coding for essentially 'free' in their minds.

I've been using their software for about 6 years now and they make great sounding products, I don't think you can argue that, but they have released products in near alpha state (Reaktor Mac pre-v4.5), they've abandoned and discontinued: Kompakt, Intakt, Bandstand, B4, Vokator, Spectral Delay, Elektric Piano, Akoustik Piano, Pro-53 (that I can think of quickly), essentially as many products as they currently offer. I really feel that NI are a company that lost it's focus on pleasing existing customers a long time ago. So someone who just buys Maschine or Komplete is blown away, and someone who bought Komplete at 2 like I did is looking back at the shear amount of software that was lost, or will be lost with an update to an OS or DAW. :|

wascal
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Re: Native Instruments discontinues Kore

Post by wascal » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:46 pm

The Kore 1 controller I mentioned on page 1 has now completely died, won't even light up. Ah well, not going to bother now I guess :?
TTKK / NOODLES / iANDALE! / TIGERBEAT6 / HOT & HEAVY etc
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3dot...
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Re: Native Instruments discontinues Kore

Post by 3dot... » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:50 pm

Machinesworking wrote:
3dot... wrote:hmmm..but..
if they make the 'kore' controller compatible with the 'Maschine' software...
that could solve it..no?
Would be nice, but there's little chance that they'll do it. NI haven't ever been the kind of company that care one bit about abandoned software, I see no financial reason why they would keep a hardware controller compatible with their software when they tie that software to another hardware controller, it's I would bet in their opinion too little benefit to them and too much coding for essentially 'free' in their minds.

I've been using their software for about 6 years now and they make great sounding products, I don't think you can argue that, but they have released products in near alpha state (Reaktor Mac pre-v4.5), they've abandoned and discontinued: Kompakt, Intakt, Bandstand, B4, Vokator, Spectral Delay, Elektric Piano, Akoustik Piano, Pro-53 (that I can think of quickly), essentially as many products as they currently offer. I really feel that NI are a company that lost it's focus on pleasing existing customers a long time ago. So someone who just buys Maschine or Komplete is blown away, and someone who bought Komplete at 2 like I did is looking back at the shear amount of software that was lost, or will be lost with an update to an OS or DAW. :|
yeah.. you forgot 'vokator'..hehe

let's hope for you lot.. that they'll make an exception this time...

:D
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delicioso
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Re: Native Instruments discontinues Kore

Post by delicioso » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:58 pm

Machinesworking wrote: NI haven't ever been the kind of company that care one bit about abandoned software
Then why are they working on two more updates for Kore to make it 64 bit and compatible with next OS updates like OS X 10.7? And why have they promised technical support for Kore for an unlimited amount of time?
Machinesworking wrote:they've abandoned and discontinued: Kompakt, Intakt, Bandstand, B4, Vokator, Spectral Delay, Elektric Piano, Akoustik Piano, Pro-53 (that I can think of quickly)
All of those discontinued products still work today with the current OSes.

And NI's past treatment of defunct products has shown that they generally maintain functionality in one form or another. B4 and Akoustic Pianos were essentially reincarnated as Kontakt soundpacks (Vintage Organs and the Piano series) and are now rolled into Komplete. Ditto Spektral Delay and Vokator, whose functionality is mimicked and exceeded by various Reaktor ensembles.

Maschine will continue Kore's integration concept as the new central hub of NI instruments.

parma
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Re: Native Instruments discontinues Kore

Post by parma » Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:07 pm

delicioso wrote:Ditto Spektral Delay and Vokator, whose functionality is mimicked and exceeded by various Reaktor ensembles.
such as...

humnumb
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Re: Native Instruments discontinues Kore

Post by humnumb » Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:15 am

glitchrock-buddha wrote:While I do have some slight fear of Kore no longer working under some future system, in reality it will continue working and being supported for all foreseeable systems until some very major change (like OS9 to OSX type thing).

So assuming it will continue to work, which is what we're told, how exactly is anyone getting screwed? I've got a product that I bought to do something. If it continues to do what it does, then I'm happy. I understand the fear of future incompatibility but I think in this case people are getting a bit overly freaked out.
Seriously. I've never seen such a tiny minority of whiners get so worked up and throw such a tantrum over something that still works and will continue to work for many years to come just as all NI's other discontinued products still do.

duro
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Re: Native Instruments discontinues Kore

Post by duro » Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:55 am

I'm OK with this. I own both. And although I love using Kore for Sound Design, I'm fine with them moving this same functionality into Maschine.

That would be my only concern though, is how long will it take for Maschine to be integrated with Kore's features (namely, setting limits on macro knobs, and layering more than 4 Modules per Sound for multi-synth layered sounds).

I love my Kore controller, but I also love my Maschine. Sad to see one go, but happy to see the other get better.

Machinesworking
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Re: Native Instruments discontinues Kore

Post by Machinesworking » Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:29 am

parma wrote:
delicioso wrote:Ditto Spektral Delay and Vokator, whose functionality is mimicked and exceeded by various Reaktor ensembles.
such as...
Exactly, that there are delays and vocoders in the ensemble list isn't even a reasonable excuse, that any are as powerful as Vokator or Spektral Delay isn't a question at all, they aren't. Pro-53 and B4 are not replaced by anything near as powerful as well.

Kore as it stands without the updates does not currently work well in Pro Tools as advertised. When NI make it happen on their discontinued product we can truthfully say they're doing more than making do with promises already made (64 bit support and engine updates). Beyond that tech support in no way means that new bugs found will be fixed, it simply means they'll read your emails and answer your phone calls and tell you that host X on OS Y with hardware Z is known to be buggy, or that they've never heard of your bug, absolutely no guarantee of fixing said bug, in fact the opposite will undoubtedly be true. So get in your complaints bug wise now and hopefully they get to it while porting to 64 bit, but no guarantees, it's just not logical that they would spend any huge amount of time on it, since it's a dead revenue stream.

Machinesworking
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Re: Native Instruments discontinues Kore

Post by Machinesworking » Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:39 am

humnumb wrote:
glitchrock-buddha wrote:While I do have some slight fear of Kore no longer working under some future system, in reality it will continue working and being supported for all foreseeable systems until some very major change (like OS9 to OSX type thing).

So assuming it will continue to work, which is what we're told, how exactly is anyone getting screwed? I've got a product that I bought to do something. If it continues to do what it does, then I'm happy. I understand the fear of future incompatibility but I think in this case people are getting a bit overly freaked out.
Seriously. I've never seen such a tiny minority of whiners get so worked up and throw such a tantrum over something that still works and will continue to work for many years to come just as all NI's other discontinued products still do.
Generator, Reaktor Player, Intakt and kompakt to name a few do not currently work in modern OS systems. Kore as well has issues with Pro Tools and likely will not be fixed in this regard as it's a long standing bug according to those that suffer from it. You have to own Kontakt IMO to use Elektric Piano without certain spiking issues and no, the plug in is not supported in the least, they tell you to buy Kontakt.
If you have enough time with NI you notice a pattern of abandonment with older software, there's not a single guarantee that Pro-53, Spektral Delay, Vokator, B4 etc. will
work in OSX Lion or Windows 8, so be prepared to abandon those, if that's OK by you fine, but it's definitely silly to think that everyone is going to like that decision or is a whiner for spending hundreds of dollars on software that is essentially going to be useless. All this is a great argument for hardware, and for a single umbrella software framework like Logic with it's proprietary in house plug ins and large stable company behind it.

pulsoc
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Re: Native Instruments discontinues Kore

Post by pulsoc » Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:41 am

If I understand some of you folks to expect .ksd files to be integrated into Maschine, you are going to be disappointed.

delicioso
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Re: Native Instruments discontinues Kore

Post by delicioso » Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:20 am

pulsoc wrote:If I understand some of you folks to expect .ksd files to be integrated into Maschine, you are going to be disappointed.
Why not? Sounds like it will happen one way or another:
"Individual instruments that use the KSD format now (Absynth, FM8, Guitar Rig, Massive) will continue to load KSD patches in the future, even after they change to another primary sound file format."
http://www.native-instruments.com/forum ... tcount=614

Machinesworking
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Re: Native Instruments discontinues Kore

Post by Machinesworking » Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:17 am

delicioso wrote:
pulsoc wrote:If I understand some of you folks to expect .ksd files to be integrated into Maschine, you are going to be disappointed.
Why not? Sounds like it will happen one way or another:
"Individual instruments that use the KSD format now (Absynth, FM8, Guitar Rig, Massive) will continue to load KSD patches in the future, even after they change to another primary sound file format."
http://www.native-instruments.com/forum ... tcount=614
That's a long way off from integrated into Maschine though. Basically tagged searching Kore style where you search for a bass sound and Kontakt, Massive and FM8 bass sounds all pop up will not work, and Performance patches (.kpe) will not load into Maschine.

dr_loop
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Re: Native Instruments discontinues Kore

Post by dr_loop » Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:57 am

Machinesworking wrote:
...Pro-53 and B4 are not replaced by anything near as powerful as well.
...in my understanding the opposite is true (except if by 'powerfull' you mean 'fancy graphics')

and also: most of the mentioned 'abandond software' (well yes: except Kore) will stop working when the VST-architecture will be broken, not with OS- or DAW-updates.
And then *a lot* will be broken.

Machinesworking
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Re: Native Instruments discontinues Kore

Post by Machinesworking » Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:39 pm

dr_loop wrote: ...in my understanding the opposite is true (except if by 'powerfull' you mean 'fancy graphics')
This has been said before, back it up with actual ensembles not empty statements. Point out a vocoder in Reaktor as powerful as Vokator, a complex Prophet 5 emulation and a granular delay that allows the drawing of the waveform like Spektral Delay.
and also: most of the mentioned 'abandond software' (well yes: except Kore) will stop working when the VST-architecture will be broken, not with OS- or DAW-updates.
And then *a lot* will be broken.
If that were true then all VSTs would develop exactly the same bug.... which simply doesn't happen. Individual VSTs get broken all the time by seemingly minute changes in software and hardware. Honestly I'm baffled as to the logic here? You must have written this in haste?
I agree that if they totally abandon VST 2.4 for 3 at the DAW level then all of NIs discontinued software will be instantly broken, is this what you meant?

We all have had one VST develop a bug related to either an OS or DAW upgrade or update. In fact it can happen because of third party drivers for MID and audio as well.
No way around the fact that all NIs discontinued software is more than likely subject to this death.

pulsoc
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Re: Native Instruments discontinues Kore

Post by pulsoc » Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:00 pm

delicioso wrote:
pulsoc wrote:If I understand some of you folks to expect .ksd files to be integrated into Maschine, you are going to be disappointed.
Why not? Sounds like it will happen one way or another:
"Individual instruments that use the KSD format now (Absynth, FM8, Guitar Rig, Massive) will continue to load KSD patches in the future, even after they change to another primary sound file format."
http://www.native-instruments.com/forum ... tcount=614
I may be speaking out of ignorance, but I understood.ksd to be the file format by which Kopre users organized all patches/morphs/"rack" controls (third party vsts included). I was not a Kore user myself, but I saw the way NI promoted Kore as framework for organizing all your musical material - it's not like just discontinuing an instrument, it's like abandoning a platform, one which people put many hours into.

I understand everything will continue working for the time being, but it doesn't make sense to continue investing time into using a platform that you KNOW will become unusable sometime in the not-so-distant future.

Time will tell how the transition (to Maschine or some other platform) for current Kore users will go, but after witnessing this operation I have lost a lot of faith in NI and its commitment to its customers AND its vision.

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