Exported song lacks clarity

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
mr.ergonomics
Posts: 914
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:12 am

Re: Exported song lacks clarity

Post by mr.ergonomics » Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:18 pm

mersault wrote:to the OP:


And yes, render each individual track out of LIVE. Export audio, select "all tracks" - that will give you separate audio files for each track. Bring those tracks into your mixing software. ----Even if you're not doing any processing in the mix, this should still greatly improve what Ableton is giving you in the rendered track.

nothing wrong with mixing in another DAW, but I don't want to read this kind of superstitiousness rumours again. Please prove it or stop spreading this misinformation. I tested this many times via phase cancellation and it's just not true.

There are problems in ableton and maybe problems with rendering as Khazul mentioned, but only under special conditions.

H20nly
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Location: The Wild West

Re: Exported song lacks clarity

Post by H20nly » Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:31 pm

mersault wrote:to the OP:

Mix in protools - that's sort of the standard, what most pros/semi-pros use, etc. More and more people are mixing in Logic these days too. I don't believe that the sound quality itself is better in Logic, but the features and editing capabilities are better - in the case where you want to do some edits during the final mix. Protools might have the edge in actual sound quality, but its debatable. I myself have grown more and more curious about Logic in this regard, but I have no experience to back it up.

Ableton is GREAT in so many ways, mixing is not one of them. For best results, mix in something else.

And yes, render each individual track out of LIVE. Export audio, select "all tracks" - that will give you separate audio files for each track. Bring those tracks into your mixing software. ----Even if you're not doing any processing in the mix, this should still greatly improve what Ableton is giving you in the rendered track.

An all in one software would be fantastic, but as of now- I see no way of using less than two in making records!!!

I've been doing things this way for years, if there's a better option - I'd love to know about it!!!

Logic seems to be closest to being an all-in-one, but there are too many things I'd miss in LIVE.
yes, you should definitely purchase another DAW. don't get that little cheapy M-Powered version of Pro-Tools either... no, you need the full blown desk in order to fix these kind of problems in your mix. Before using the Pro-Tools desk though, you should definitely install Logic and export to that. just touching the track with Logic should help a lot. if you don't have a Mac that isn't a problem, you can get one at the Apple store, but make sure its the latest model and that it has all the available features or else your mix could sound cheap. also, if your monitors cost less than 1000 US dollars they are total crap.


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trippin
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:57 pm

Re: Exported song lacks clarity

Post by trippin » Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:34 pm

Hi again, I appreciate your responses. I did some tests with Khazul loopback bouncing suggestion and still it seems to be the same (or I am doing something wrong but don't think so). The track for testing that I made consists of long, big, evolving drone and some other crazy sounds so there are many layers and details going on in it good to observe, and I can easily distinguish bounced/exported 24bit/32bit track, the sounds are more glued together, there is worse separation and stereo imaging, and it's not dramatic change, I bet you can still make it sound very good with ableton and post-processing/effects. I just point out it doesn't sound the same as original, it lacks some 'airy' hi-def depth to it.

mersault
Posts: 78
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 8:49 am

Re: Exported song lacks clarity

Post by mersault » Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:02 am

I began my post with "to the OP:" to avoid a debate about the sound quality in Ableton.

I can say with certainty that in my own ears, Ableton's summing is obviously subpar - the original poster obviously thinks so too. Assume this conversation is between the OP and myself. Its my opinion - and I don't know why people get so upset over it. I don't need to prove anything - it sounds like crap when I bounce whole tracks down from Ableton, it doesn't sound the same as it does out of the master - that's enough for me to know.

NO, you don't need Logic AND Protools - I never stated that. And NO, you don't need any specific version of Protools - and NO, you don't need a Mac.

The OP has a legitimate problem and I'm giving him my opinion and some options. He's obviously having a problem with the mixdown. Ableton isn't even meant for summing.

I'm practically an old man on here. I've been making records for a long time and using Live since version 4. I don't know of a studio that mixes in Ableton. I (and my associates) would never release anything that was mixed in Ableton. Again this is my opinion - I'm not bashing anybody else's opinion. As much as Ableton is my single favorite program, I'm not afraid to note its flaws.

Long story short- I wouldn't use Ableton to mix and I wouldn't use PT to create.

Why is that so offensive? I'm not trying to argue - if you think it sounds fine, I wouldn't dream of telling you to do otherwise.

pbs99
Posts: 28
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Location: ny

Re: Exported song lacks clarity

Post by pbs99 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:50 am

on second thoughts, think i'll delete my post

trippin
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:57 pm

Re: Exported song lacks clarity

Post by trippin » Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:11 am

mersault wrote:I began my post with "to the OP:" to avoid a debate about the sound quality in Ableton.

I can say with certainty that in my own ears, Ableton's summing is obviously subpar - the original poster obviously thinks so too. Assume this conversation is between the OP and myself. Its my opinion - and I don't know why people get so upset over it. I don't need to prove anything - it sounds like crap when I bounce whole tracks down from Ableton, it doesn't sound the same as it does out of the master - that's enough for me to know.

NO, you don't need Logic AND Protools - I never stated that. And NO, you don't need any specific version of Protools - and NO, you don't need a Mac.

The OP has a legitimate problem and I'm giving him my opinion and some options. He's obviously having a problem with the mixdown. Ableton isn't even meant for summing.

I'm practically an old man on here. I've been making records for a long time and using Live since version 4. I don't know of a studio that mixes in Ableton. I (and my associates) would never release anything that was mixed in Ableton. Again this is my opinion - I'm not bashing anybody else's opinion. As much as Ableton is my single favorite program, I'm not afraid to note its flaws.

Long story short- I wouldn't use Ableton to mix and I wouldn't use PT to create.

Why is that so offensive? I'm not trying to argue - if you think it sounds fine, I wouldn't dream of telling you to do otherwise.

Hi, thanx for sharing your views, I don't know if I need now better audio quality for my purposes but do you know of any software besides 'big' DAWs like Protools, that might better do the summing or better record audio output? (like maybe Soundforge)

tw1nstates
Posts: 1127
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 1:00 pm

Re: Exported song lacks clarity

Post by tw1nstates » Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:57 am

trippin wrote:Hi again, I appreciate your responses. I did some tests with Khazul loopback bouncing suggestion and still it seems to be the same (or I am doing something wrong but don't think so). The track for testing that I made consists of long, big, evolving drone and some other crazy sounds so there are many layers and details going on in it good to observe, and I can easily distinguish bounced/exported 24bit/32bit track, the sounds are more glued together, there is worse separation and stereo imaging, and it's not dramatic change, I bet you can still make it sound very good with ableton and post-processing/effects. I just point out it doesn't sound the same as original, it lacks some 'airy' hi-def depth to it.

So just loop it back then perhaps?

TBH all you are saying is my subjective biased opinion gives me this (unless you did the test double blind).

Be interesting to try it that way.

If anyone cares to post a test I think that might settle the whole debate once and for all...
I slipped into a daze, whilst I was there I heard the most startling music, it was at once familiar and alien, reassuring and unsettling.
https://soundcloud.com/fearoftherave

Akshara
Posts: 377
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Re: Exported song lacks clarity

Post by Akshara » Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:13 pm

trippin wrote: Hi, thanx for sharing your views, I don't know if I need now better audio quality for my purposes but do you know of any software besides 'big' DAWs like Protools, that might better do the summing or better record audio output? (like maybe Soundforge)
Harrison Mixbus is an affordable alternative to the "big" DAWs.

dbfs
Posts: 140
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Location: N. Korea

Re: Exported song lacks clarity

Post by dbfs » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:09 pm

mersault wrote: Why is that so offensive? I'm not trying to argue - if you think it sounds fine, I wouldn't dream of telling you to do otherwise.
Just ignore H2ho - He's another punkpbitch fanboy who who likes to hear himself talk. I'm guessing hes in his mid twenties by the way he types. He's a nobody going nowhere, hence the post count... Just one of the top 10 blowhards on this forum with an opinion about everything - And only his is valid.. Total fuckstain as usual... He can hug a dick as far as I'm concerned. :lol:

3dot...
Posts: 9996
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:10 pm

Re: Exported song lacks clarity

Post by 3dot... » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:18 pm

we need a 'Henke intervention'.. to many of these threads lately..
Image

3dot...
Posts: 9996
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:10 pm

Re: Exported song lacks clarity

Post by 3dot... » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:19 pm

dbfs wrote:
Just ignore H2ho - He's another punkpbitch fanboy who who likes to hear himself talk. I'm guessing hes in his mid twenties by the way he types. He's a nobody going nowhere, hence the post count... Just one of the top 10 blowhards on this forum with an opinion about everything - And only his is valid.. Total fuckstain as usual... He can hug a dick as far as I'm concerned. :lol:
wow... that's mature... :lol:
Image

mr.ergonomics
Posts: 914
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:12 am

Re: Exported song lacks clarity

Post by mr.ergonomics » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:25 pm

3dot... wrote:we need a 'Henke intervention'.. to many of these threads lately..
word up. I'm for scientific investigation and mature discussion of lives problems.I have issues with live too, but this gossip talk without proof is not what I would call reasonable.

that said, mersault was not offensive in any way. so...mersault.. plese don't take this as personal offence... :)

H20nly
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Location: The Wild West

Re: Exported song lacks clarity

Post by H20nly » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:39 pm

3dot... wrote:
dbfs wrote:
Just ignore H2ho - He's another punkpbitch fanboy who who likes to hear himself talk. I'm guessing hes in his mid twenties by the way he types. He's a nobody going nowhere, hence the post count... Just one of the top 10 blowhards on this forum with an opinion about everything - And only his is valid.. Total fuckstain as usual... He can hug a dick as far as I'm concerned. :lol:
wow... that's mature... :lol:
^ yeah isn't he just the regular role model?

:lol:

http://forum.ableton.com/search.php?st= ... r_id=89653

at least half his posts are insults.

@ dbfs and/or mersault - do you honestly think that telling someone who is trying to figure out a problem with one application that getting another application is the best way to go? i mean, if you're having trouble with Word and someone tells you to get Open Office that's one thing, but these DAWs cost 100s of what ever currency is used to buy them and truthfully, you can make a song, that sounds good, in any of them. <-- period
it equates to - oh that wheel is squeaky - time to get a new car. his problem starts after export. he's happy with his mix. think about it.

at some point blaming the software and the hardware starts to become an excuse and ends up being a crutch.

dbfs
Posts: 140
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:49 pm
Location: N. Korea

Re: Exported song lacks clarity

Post by dbfs » Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:06 pm

Who said anything about trying to be a mature role model? Is that what your looking for when you come to the live forums? Dumbass... :roll:

I could give two shits about what you clowns on this forum think of me and my contributions. If you were in front of my face, I would say the same fuckin thing to you nerdy fuckers.

Speaking of insults, you should take a trip to New York, New York and talk to me about insults you sensitive babies. What I'm preaching is like Sunday school compared to the kind of interactions you'll have on the streets there. Grow some balls & stop crying.

And at some point you have to wonder why these threads keep popping up here too, right? It's not magic, you just need to go to the doctor and get your ears cleaned out, literally... - I have it done every 6 months, and its so refreshing. I feel like 2 year old German Shepard when I leave there.

So... Now I have a mission for you..

Go to the Reaper forums and find me some threads questioning the sound quality of Reaper
Go to the Studio One forums and find me some threads questioning the sound quality of Studio One
Go to the Samplitude forums and find me some threads questioning the sound quality of Samplitude
Etc... etc... Check them all, looks like you got the time..

After you rounded up a total of 3 threads.. lets compare them to the number of threads for this DAW. I'll be eagerly awaiting your findings.

H20nly
Posts: 15836
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:15 pm
Location: The Wild West

Re: Exported song lacks clarity

Post by H20nly » Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:12 pm

dbfs might as well have wrote:Image
next time they wash your ears out... tell em to wash your ass out too.

and set an alarm. you need to wake up and stop dreaming you're a tuff guy.

New York. pfft :roll:

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