MIDI clock (slave) improvements in Live 8.2.4b1

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
[nis]
Posts: 578
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:31 pm
Location: Ableton Headquarters
Contact:

MIDI clock (slave) improvements in Live 8.2.4b1

Post by [nis] » Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:01 am

Dear all,

The latest Live 8 beta (8.2.4b1) introduces a new MIDI clock algorithm, which should improve Live's stability when running as a slave. This means that Live's tempo calculation and phase correction should be more precise than in older Live versions and you'll get less warping artifacts, which is particularly helpful for the "repitch" warp mode.

There is, however, also a small disadvantage: Whilst the new algorithm works great at a constant tempo, it now reacts slightly slower to tempo changes. As we do believe that the majority of our users rather syncs to a constant master tempo, we hope that the improved stability outweighs this small disadvantage. Anyway, we'd encourage you to try out the latest beta and check how good (or bad) it works for you. In case you have problems with the new algorithm, please contact support@ableton.com.

Please note:

- These changes only affect the clock slave behavior. There was nothing changed on the clock master algorithm.

- The stability of the slave algorithm still depends on your system and the quality of your master clock. If you have a real bad master clock or bad MIDI drivers, you probably won't see much of an improvement.

- If you sync 2 computers, consider to send the clock over an ethernet connection (not WiFi!), which usually works better than an ordinary MIDI interface.

You can grab the beta here:
http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=165221

Best,
Nico
Nico Starke
Ableton Product Team

chapelier fou
Posts: 5188
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 12:15 pm

Re: MIDI clock (slave) improvements in Live 8.2.4b1

Post by chapelier fou » Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:33 pm

For me what's important in syncing two computers is precisely to work well for tempo changes... If the tempo remains the same, i don't see the point of syncing the computers, unless for start/stop, which is usually doable by hand.
MacBook Pro 13" Retina i7 2.8 GHz OS 10.13, L10.0.1, M4L.
iMac 27" Retina i5 3,2 GHz OS 10.11.3 L10.0.1 M4L.

Piplodocus
Posts: 791
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:48 pm
Location: Southampton, UK

Re: MIDI clock (slave) improvements in Live 8.2.4b1

Post by Piplodocus » Sun Jun 12, 2011 1:15 pm

I guess that depends on the definition of "slightly slower". Have you tried it?

I don't sync live as a slave personally, but I really hope this is an improvement as it'd make 3phase half as grumpy. :)

v00d00ppl
Posts: 1630
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2005 3:29 am
Location: Fremont, CA
Contact:

Re: MIDI clock (slave) improvements in Live 8.2.4b1

Post by v00d00ppl » Sun Jun 12, 2011 1:30 pm

So now I can do mpc as midi master and ableton as midi slave?
SSL X Desk / Apollo Twin Solo / Sherman Restyler / Ensoniq EPS Classic / Analog Keys / Handsome Audio Zulu

[nis]
Posts: 578
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:31 pm
Location: Ableton Headquarters
Contact:

Re: MIDI clock (slave) improvements in Live 8.2.4b1

Post by [nis] » Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:29 pm

chapelier fou wrote:For me what's important in syncing two computers is precisely to work well for tempo changes... If the tempo remains the same, i don't see the point of syncing the computers, unless for start/stop, which is usually doable by hand.
Well, two computers (or any other sequencer devices) will always drift after a while, even if you set them to the exact same tempo. You either need to sync your audio interfaces via wordclock or use a MIDI clock, which is what most people do.

Anyway, please try the new beta and compare it with an older Live 8 version. We're really interested in your feedback, as we put quite a lot of effort into this. The new algorithm shouldn't make it much worse than it was before. In case you experience a significantly worse behavior, please contact Support. We could try to tweak the new algorithm a bit for your particular setup.

Thanks!
Nico
Nico Starke
Ableton Product Team

[nis]
Posts: 578
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:31 pm
Location: Ableton Headquarters
Contact:

Re: MIDI clock (slave) improvements in Live 8.2.4b1

Post by [nis] » Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:30 pm

v00d00ppl wrote:So now I can do mpc as midi master and ableton as midi slave?
Yes, please try it and let us know if the new version works better than before.
Nico Starke
Ableton Product Team

Khazul
Posts: 3185
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 5:19 pm
Location: Reading, UK

Re: MIDI clock (slave) improvements in Live 8.2.4b1

Post by Khazul » Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:57 pm

Oh - seems like time to try Live under Traktor's timecode vinyl control again :)
Nothing to see here - move along!

ark
Posts: 1349
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:25 pm
Location: New Jersey, USA
Contact:

Re: MIDI clock (slave) improvements in Live 8.2.4b1

Post by ark » Sun Jun 12, 2011 4:18 pm

There's a big improvement in how accurately the BPM that Live displays matches the BPM that my MIDI device puts out.

I have a Nord G2 connected to my computer. If I set 120 bpm on the G2 and use it to MIDI-sync Live 8.2, Live displays values between 119.87 and 120.09. On the same computer, with the same setup, Live 8.4b1 displays values between 119.99 and 120.01.

v00d00ppl
Posts: 1630
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2005 3:29 am
Location: Fremont, CA
Contact:

Re: MIDI clock (slave) improvements in Live 8.2.4b1

Post by v00d00ppl » Sun Jun 12, 2011 4:22 pm

ark wrote:There's a big improvement in how accurately the BPM that Live displays matches the BPM that my MIDI device puts out.

I have a Nord G2 connected to my computer. If I set 120 bpm on the G2 and use it to MIDI-sync Live 8.2, Live displays values between 119.87 and 120.09. On the same computer, with the same setup, Live 8.4b1 displays values between 119.99 and 120.01.

awesome to hear that. i'll jump on the bandwagon on tuesday.
SSL X Desk / Apollo Twin Solo / Sherman Restyler / Ensoniq EPS Classic / Analog Keys / Handsome Audio Zulu

wehkah
Posts: 496
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 4:19 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: MIDI clock (slave) improvements in Live 8.2.4b1

Post by wehkah » Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:22 pm

Sounds good. I hope Live will work better with Reaper as rewire slave now.
Motto: sharing knowledge...

https://soundcloud.com/bytechop

Palmer Eldritch
Posts: 525
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:47 pm
Location: Universe>Earth>Europe>Germany

Re: MIDI clock (slave) improvements in Live 8.2.4b1

Post by Palmer Eldritch » Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:40 pm

wehkah wrote:Sounds good. I hope Live will work better with Reaper as rewire slave now.
Mhhh, sorry that I have to disappoint you but midi clock has nothing to do with rewire :roll:

cheers, palmer
Live 8_3_4 + 4b7_32+64 -Suite- Max4Live 5_1_9 _ core2DuoMacBook 2*2,16 Ghz + external FW HD _ OSX 10.6.8 _ 3G RAM _ M.H. MIO 2882 + 5.4d208 Driver _ Faderfox LV1 _ Akai MPK25 _ Logitec wheel mouse _______ PeacE will be the SOLution of LIVE

wehkah
Posts: 496
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 4:19 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: MIDI clock (slave) improvements in Live 8.2.4b1

Post by wehkah » Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:04 pm

Thats right, i've overlooked this ;). If i use Live as Slave and have timing problems if i start/stop playback in Reaper, i thought it's a side effect. Maybe im wrong.

cheers
T
Motto: sharing knowledge...

https://soundcloud.com/bytechop

gtodd876
Posts: 180
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 3:00 pm
Location: Virginia
Contact:

Re: MIDI clock (slave) improvements in Live 8.2.4b1

Post by gtodd876 » Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:32 pm

I'm getting great results so far with Mobius looper plug-in, that sets the tempo from my first loop and sending that midi clock over the IAC bus to Live as the tempo slave. Using delay effects on my incoming audio were right in sync with the initial loop that set the tempo in Mobius.
-----------------------------------------------
Todd Matthews
http://www.facebook.com/mydarlingfury
http://twitter.com/mydarlingfury | http://mydarlingfury.com

jbodango
Posts: 521
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 11:25 pm
Contact:

Re: MIDI clock (slave) improvements in Live 8.2.4b1

Post by jbodango » Tue Jun 14, 2011 1:07 am

Upon completion or closer to a non-beta release, would it be possible to write up a MIDI sync facts section?

I don't want to use the term, but it was a 'game changer' when you published the audio and midi facts sections in the manual a few versions ago. Having those at my arsenal helped keep non-ableton natives calm during the import/export between pro tools sessions, etc.

Donnie
Posts: 810
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:16 pm
Location: Chicago Suburbs
Contact:

Re: MIDI clock (slave) improvements in Live 8.2.4b1

Post by Donnie » Tue Jun 14, 2011 1:22 pm

I like it, however since my set constantly changes tempo I just hope this doesn't do more harm than good.

Post Reply