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 Post subject: MIDI clock (slave) improvements in Live 8.2.4b1
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:01 am 

Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:31 pm
Posts: 577
Location: Ableton Headquarters
Dear all,

The latest Live 8 beta (8.2.4b1) introduces a new MIDI clock algorithm, which should improve Live's stability when running as a slave. This means that Live's tempo calculation and phase correction should be more precise than in older Live versions and you'll get less warping artifacts, which is particularly helpful for the "repitch" warp mode.

There is, however, also a small disadvantage: Whilst the new algorithm works great at a constant tempo, it now reacts slightly slower to tempo changes. As we do believe that the majority of our users rather syncs to a constant master tempo, we hope that the improved stability outweighs this small disadvantage. Anyway, we'd encourage you to try out the latest beta and check how good (or bad) it works for you. In case you have problems with the new algorithm, please contact support@ableton.com.

Please note:

- These changes only affect the clock slave behavior. There was nothing changed on the clock master algorithm.

- The stability of the slave algorithm still depends on your system and the quality of your master clock. If you have a real bad master clock or bad MIDI drivers, you probably won't see much of an improvement.

- If you sync 2 computers, consider to send the clock over an ethernet connection (not WiFi!), which usually works better than an ordinary MIDI interface.

You can grab the beta here:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=165221

Best,
Nico

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 Post subject: Re: MIDI clock (slave) improvements in Live 8.2.4b1
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:33 pm 

Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 12:15 pm
Posts: 3952
For me what's important in syncing two computers is precisely to work well for tempo changes... If the tempo remains the same, i don't see the point of syncing the computers, unless for start/stop, which is usually doable by hand.

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 Post subject: Re: MIDI clock (slave) improvements in Live 8.2.4b1
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 1:15 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:48 pm
Posts: 774
Location: Southampton, UK
I guess that depends on the definition of "slightly slower". Have you tried it?

I don't sync live as a slave personally, but I really hope this is an improvement as it'd make 3phase half as grumpy. :)


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 Post subject: Re: MIDI clock (slave) improvements in Live 8.2.4b1
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 1:30 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2005 3:29 am
Posts: 1555
Location: Fremont, CA
So now I can do mpc as midi master and ableton as midi slave?

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 Post subject: Re: MIDI clock (slave) improvements in Live 8.2.4b1
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:29 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:31 pm
Posts: 577
Location: Ableton Headquarters
chapelier fou wrote:
For me what's important in syncing two computers is precisely to work well for tempo changes... If the tempo remains the same, i don't see the point of syncing the computers, unless for start/stop, which is usually doable by hand.


Well, two computers (or any other sequencer devices) will always drift after a while, even if you set them to the exact same tempo. You either need to sync your audio interfaces via wordclock or use a MIDI clock, which is what most people do.

Anyway, please try the new beta and compare it with an older Live 8 version. We're really interested in your feedback, as we put quite a lot of effort into this. The new algorithm shouldn't make it much worse than it was before. In case you experience a significantly worse behavior, please contact Support. We could try to tweak the new algorithm a bit for your particular setup.

Thanks!
Nico

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 Post subject: Re: MIDI clock (slave) improvements in Live 8.2.4b1
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:30 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:31 pm
Posts: 577
Location: Ableton Headquarters
v00d00ppl wrote:
So now I can do mpc as midi master and ableton as midi slave?


Yes, please try it and let us know if the new version works better than before.

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 Post subject: Re: MIDI clock (slave) improvements in Live 8.2.4b1
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:57 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 5:19 pm
Posts: 3131
Location: Reading, UK
Oh - seems like time to try Live under Traktor's timecode vinyl control again :)

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 Post subject: Re: MIDI clock (slave) improvements in Live 8.2.4b1
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 4:18 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:25 pm
Posts: 1245
Location: New Jersey, USA
There's a big improvement in how accurately the BPM that Live displays matches the BPM that my MIDI device puts out.

I have a Nord G2 connected to my computer. If I set 120 bpm on the G2 and use it to MIDI-sync Live 8.2, Live displays values between 119.87 and 120.09. On the same computer, with the same setup, Live 8.4b1 displays values between 119.99 and 120.01.


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 Post subject: Re: MIDI clock (slave) improvements in Live 8.2.4b1
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 4:22 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2005 3:29 am
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Location: Fremont, CA
ark wrote:
There's a big improvement in how accurately the BPM that Live displays matches the BPM that my MIDI device puts out.

I have a Nord G2 connected to my computer. If I set 120 bpm on the G2 and use it to MIDI-sync Live 8.2, Live displays values between 119.87 and 120.09. On the same computer, with the same setup, Live 8.4b1 displays values between 119.99 and 120.01.



awesome to hear that. i'll jump on the bandwagon on tuesday.

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 Post subject: Re: MIDI clock (slave) improvements in Live 8.2.4b1
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:22 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 4:19 pm
Posts: 493
Location: Germany
Sounds good. I hope Live will work better with Reaper as rewire slave now.

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 Post subject: Re: MIDI clock (slave) improvements in Live 8.2.4b1
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:40 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:47 pm
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wehkah wrote:
Sounds good. I hope Live will work better with Reaper as rewire slave now.


Mhhh, sorry that I have to disappoint you but midi clock has nothing to do with rewire :roll:

cheers, palmer

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 Post subject: Re: MIDI clock (slave) improvements in Live 8.2.4b1
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:04 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 4:19 pm
Posts: 493
Location: Germany
Thats right, i've overlooked this ;). If i use Live as Slave and have timing problems if i start/stop playback in Reaper, i thought it's a side effect. Maybe im wrong.

cheers
T

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 Post subject: Re: MIDI clock (slave) improvements in Live 8.2.4b1
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:32 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 3:00 pm
Posts: 180
Location: Virginia
I'm getting great results so far with Mobius looper plug-in, that sets the tempo from my first loop and sending that midi clock over the IAC bus to Live as the tempo slave. Using delay effects on my incoming audio were right in sync with the initial loop that set the tempo in Mobius.

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 Post subject: Re: MIDI clock (slave) improvements in Live 8.2.4b1
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 1:07 am 

Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 11:25 pm
Posts: 497
Upon completion or closer to a non-beta release, would it be possible to write up a MIDI sync facts section?

I don't want to use the term, but it was a 'game changer' when you published the audio and midi facts sections in the manual a few versions ago. Having those at my arsenal helped keep non-ableton natives calm during the import/export between pro tools sessions, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: MIDI clock (slave) improvements in Live 8.2.4b1
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 1:22 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:16 pm
Posts: 798
I like it, however since my set constantly changes tempo I just hope this doesn't do more harm than good.

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