Pre-amp Question

[stattick]

Hey guys, how's it going?

I'm trying to figure out why I'm getting such a weak sound from my microphone. In the four years since I've been using Ableton, I've tried an M-Audio pre-amp and, more recently, the phantom-powered Lexicon Alpha. For a mic, I'm using the standard Shure SM58.

For whatever reason, I find the microphone signal exceedingly weak in Ableton, so much so that I have to use compression and EQ in order to even hear myself (and I know this is not advisable - recording yourself with compression and EQ, or really any effects.) Do I need to get an external microphone pre-amp to further bolster the soundl? If so, I would love some recommendations for one.

Really, I just want to be able to hear myself singing over the music I'm playing. Any suggestions?

[Cezband]

Sounds a bit strange...the SM58 is a standard dynamic cardioid mic, it doesn't need phantom power or anything like that. You should just be able to turn up the pre-amp on your interface and start getting a level from it inside Live.

I wouldn't worry too much about the effects of using compression and eq within Live, because they won't change the actual audio going in. A bit of compression and reverb is actually really helpful to get a good "feel" when getting someone to sing, and then these can be tweaked afterwards.

Vocals by their very naure vary hugely in volume, so it's not uncommon to have a very thin-looking wave form with a few big blobs on it. Have you thought of just turning everything else down, making the levels sit fine at the lower volume between vocals and instruments and then trusting the mastering process to bring the volume back up again? To me, that seems the best option.

The only other thing I can think of is your actual mic technique. The SM58 is designed to be pointed directly at the vocalist's mouth at a reasonably close range (comparatively speaking). You're not singing into the side of it or standing too far back, are you? Remember it'll be a different technique to using say a condenser mic, so best practice for one isn't necessarily best practice for the other.

[stattick]

I'm standing close to the mic, yes... It might be a matter of simply turning down the rest of the music in order to hear myself, and then bringing the levels back up afterwards. However, I can't help but feel that the volume just doesn't have enough Oomph on its own, even with the pre-amp set to high. I'm all for experimenting until I get it right, but as a relative newbie, I worry that my equipment isn't up to snuff or that I am missing an element to the process. Recording vocals is far trickier than I imagined.

But I'm still curious as to whether an external mic preamp is worth the money - that is, a preamp to go in-between the Lexicon Alpha and the microphone... Will that give the volume the boost it needs?

[Angstrom]

the issue is most likely impedance matching

I'm not sure what control panel your sound card has. Or what card you actually have. there should be something in its own control panel for impedance switching.

Microphones, instruments (guitars), and Line-level devices (synths / tape-decks) all have different impedances. I could explain what impedance is but lets just say ... it needs to match between source and input. It's a horrible subject to explain. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_impedance

So, if you plug a Line device into an 'instrument'input you will get an overloaded signal. If you plug a mic signal into a line-level input you will get a feeble, weak and thin signal. This also happens with guitars and turntables.

Shure SM58® vocal microphone: Impedance Rated impedance is 150 ohms (300 ohms actual) for connection to microphone inputs rated low impedance

Solution : you need to set your card input for that channel to 'low' , or 'mic' or whatever it decides to call it. NOT : 'high' , or 'line'

[agent314]

Get one of these:

http://www.amazon.com/ART-Tube-Studio-M ... B0002E50MC

For 30USD, you can't go wrong, and they sound pretty good. I use one in front of my interface for vocals and guitar to give a little analogue color to the signal. It may be entirely psychoacoustic, but it sounds better to me, and especially feels punchier with guitar/bass.

[agent314]

[edited - posted in wrong thread]

[stattick]

Thanks for all your input. I'm working with a Macbook Pro and whatever soundcard it came with. I'll have to look into that when I get home from work...

[stattick]

So like I said, I'm on a MacBook Pro, but can't figure out what soundcard I'm using, or where the control panel might be. Any idea of how to find it?

[Dragonbreath]

check if the -20db pad is on...

[Dragonbreath]

check if the -20db pad is on...

[Angstrom]

that quiet sound is the sound of electronic musician politeness.
it is a rare and beautiful thing.

The internal mac audio interface is passable for travel and pootling around, however if you are using your computer for music on a regular basis I would advise you get an external soundinterface. Personally I recommend something from RME, although others manufacturers are available. Most of them are shit though.

[H20nly]

Get one of these:

http://www.amazon.com/ART-Tube-Studio-M ... B0002E50MC

For 30USD, you can't go wrong, and they sound pretty good. I use one in front of my interface for vocals and guitar to give a little analogue color to the signal. It may be entirely psychoacoustic, but it sounds better to me, and especially feels punchier with guitar/bass.

does this thing introduce/aggravate any line noise?

i ask because i have a Presonus Blue Tube, but the thing started picking up a hum from somewhere. it was especially noticeable when my bass was plugged in to it. i finally took it out of my setup because the ends no longer justified the means. i'd rather have a weak vocal or bass line that needs to be boosted than have one with hum that is near impossible to remove.

[agent314]

does this thing introduce/aggravate any line noise?

i ask because i have a Presonus Blue Tube, but the thing started picking up a hum from somewhere. it was especially noticeable when my bass was plugged in to it. i finally took it out of my setup because the ends no longer justified the means. i'd rather have a weak vocal or bass line that needs to be boosted than have one with hum that is near impossible to remove.

Not itself, but it does seem to noticeably amplify any existing noise on the line. In my last apartment, I could max the gain and hit the +20 switch with my dynamic mics with no added noise, but where I am now, I get a clicking on the line, which I'm pretty sure is from the electrical in the house rather than the unit itself. Doesn't happen when I'm using something that needs phantom power.

[H20nly]

thx.

the price is right eh?

on the line noise in your house issue.... i bought 2 UPS units and plugged all my stuff into them. not because i really need to have a battery backup if the power goes out, but because they condition the power which eliminates the brown noise etc. if you haven't already got something like that i highly recommend it. i live above a dry cleaner so the electrical was bouncing up and down like adolescent girls at a Justin Bieber concert.

http://www.apc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=29

[agent314]

Interesting...

Would it be better/cheaper to go with one of those or a power conditioner of some kind?