AU vs VST...discovery?

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JuanSOLO
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AU vs VST...discovery?

Post by JuanSOLO » Sun Jun 19, 2011 4:47 pm

So I have always used AU plugs because they are MAC native and long ago it was recommended to use them if on a MAC. However the other day I decided to replace all of my AU plugs with VST plugs. I noticed that Live no longer made a clicking glitch when stopping playback, or highlighting different tracks. The clicking has always been a minimal annoyance at home through my monitors, but running through a PA it is much louder and really gets on my nerves. I also feel like Live just responds better to track selecting on my APC40 with VST's.

Can anyone else confirm this?

catalyst
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Re: AU vs VST...discovery?

Post by catalyst » Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:37 pm

The clicking you mention, I get that too and it is a pain in the arse. Clicks from stopping playback using the transport rather than stopping all clips, right? I was pondering a dabble with VST over AU again actually, triggered by reading the Analog Industries blog and hearing him trash AU funnily once more.. but I'll definitely try it now and see if it gets rid of the clicks :D

antarktika
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Re: AU vs VST...discovery?

Post by antarktika » Sun Jun 19, 2011 6:45 pm

I feel like I must be wrong, but for some reason it seems like since I started using the vst versions of my plugs, they eat up far less cpu than the au ones.

rustig
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Re: AU vs VST...discovery?

Post by rustig » Sun Jun 19, 2011 7:29 pm

What i also like with au vs vst`s is preset switching....you can scroll thru your (mostly using uad plugz)
http://soundcloud.com/stompboxer/sets

Mac pro quad xeon osx 10.5.8 - Rme fireface uc - Novation launchpad - Uad2 quad - Access virus ti - Moog slim phatty.

JuanSOLO
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Re: AU vs VST...discovery?

Post by JuanSOLO » Sun Jun 19, 2011 8:25 pm

antarktika wrote:I feel like I must be wrong, but for some reason it seems like since I started using the vst versions of my plugs, they eat up far less cpu than the au ones.

Yeah, I may be hallucinating, but I thought this too. VST's just seem to be running smoother, less CPU and no clicks. I feel like it's easy to notice on a Live set that's heavy on CPU due to plugs.

Machinesworking
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Re: AU vs VST...discovery?

Post by Machinesworking » Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:06 pm

It's probably a particular AU that's causing issues. Mostly I use AU in Live and VST inside Kore, but if an AU is acting up I'll use the VST version.
From what I can tell the AU versions tend to have less graphics/click dragging related bugs and VSTs have less of the odd bugs like you guys are mentioning.

It really truly depends on the developer, Urs Heckman started coding plug ins with AU so I wouldn't use anything but his AU versions, Reaktor tends to be more stable and has a few more features in the VST version. Audio Ease have always done a great job of supporting all formats, they even support MAS for DP all these years later.

timothyallan
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Re: AU vs VST...discovery?

Post by timothyallan » Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:38 pm

I was having crashes with Audio Damage and Sugarbytes plugs, emailed both of them and both developers emailed me back just saying to use the VST version and stay away from AU if I could.

Dragonbreath
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Re: AU vs VST...discovery?

Post by Dragonbreath » Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:13 am

I find it depends on the plugin, some I dont notice difference, some are better AU, some are better VST, some dont even work at all AU and make ableton crash but work fine in vst

glitchrock-buddha
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Re: AU vs VST...discovery?

Post by glitchrock-buddha » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:52 am

While there may be the odd one that was designed as the AU first, that's almost always not the case. And for the few that were, like Zebra, they tend to work fine as the VST.

I won't use AU at all in Live. Waste of time if you ask me. The preset system is much better with VSTs (or with inbuilt presets) than the AU system. And of course there is the matter of being able to send midi out. I've ranted enough times about how much better VSTs are for novation automap. I wouldn't even consider using automap with audio units.

And I have sometimes found the cpu usage to be a touch better with VSTs and play smoother.

I don't even turn my audio units folder on, and I encourage everyone else to do the same.
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Machinesworking
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Re: AU vs VST...discovery?

Post by Machinesworking » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:55 am

glitchrock-buddha wrote:While there may be the odd one that was designed as the AU first, that's almost always not the case. And for the few that were, like Zebra, they tend to work fine as the VST.

I won't use AU at all in Live. Waste of time if you ask me. The preset system is much better with VSTs (or with inbuilt presets) than the AU system. And of course there is the matter of being able to send midi out. I've ranted enough times about how much better VSTs are for novation automap. I wouldn't even consider using automap with audio units.

And I have sometimes found the cpu usage to be a touch better with VSTs and play smoother.

I don't even turn my audio units folder on, and I encourage everyone else to do the same.
I use Digital Performer and occasionally Logic. Since both are AU only I tend to favor AU for simplicities sake as far as switching between DAWs, though I use MIDI out with Reaktor on occasion I'm not that huge on it, it's a limited function. Also from what I recall I remember the reason you liked the VST in Automap was because Live could recognize a VST that you replaced with a non automapped version. Since I'm a big fan of the joystick on Novation controllers I'm not switching anytime soon and don't need the guarantee that non automapped versions can be replaced etc. In fact the only reason I use VSTs at all was for Kore.
In my experience the bug fest is a wash. people IMO have this odd notion about what a plug in format is VS what the core of the code is. VST and AU are both basically wrappers, the underling effect or instrument code is platform independent, both in OS and AU, VST or RTAS. Things like the lack of MIDI out are at this point due to the DAW and plug in developers, not the format.
Just saying there are reasons to use either, it's not a cut an dried thing. Personally I'm a bit disappointed in Apple though, they should update AU specs and give the developers something to work with, but to a degree they're tied to VST spec. :|

glitchrock-buddha
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Re: AU vs VST...discovery?

Post by glitchrock-buddha » Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:09 pm

Ya I won't be siwtching anytime soon from Novation controllers. But the fact that I can make a Novation automap wrapped version of a plug-in and then if I want still use for example a koresound made by someone else and have it still be automapped - that's pretty cool, and impossible with audio units. Ausio units see them as different. You can't even make an audio unit automapped and then use the au presets of the instrument. It's such a pain if you're an automap user. And like you said, take away automap and none of your automapped audio units will work anymore. With VSTs you can take away and put it back. It will be automapped when you've made the wrapped version and normal when removed. So that's big.

But I did also switch to VST outside of Logic because I started using Kore more and VST was recommended for that (and internal engines were VST). But I also liked the preset switching much better. For me it was also a case that there were a few plug-ins at one time that were VST and not yet audio units, so at some point I just said to hell with it and never looked back. With Logic I'll tend to use Kore a lot or Logic's own plug-ins.
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JuanSOLO
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Re: AU vs VST...discovery?

Post by JuanSOLO » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:27 pm

just for the record, my main use of plugs is for Native Instruments stuff. Just haven't had the funds for Zebra, and I am pretty hooked on Reaktor. I bought Kore a while back and have been trying to use it in my set. After reading about using VST's with it, I hope I get better results.

glitchrock-buddha
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Re: AU vs VST...discovery?

Post by glitchrock-buddha » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:44 pm

Yes NI are one of the many companies who develop VSTs first and seem to prefer that format.
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Machinesworking
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Re: AU vs VST...discovery?

Post by Machinesworking » Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:23 am

The reason for VSTs in Kore is pretty straightforward really. As Kore was touted as a universal platform, a Kore performance with VSTs was able to work on both OSX and Windows, so NI developed Kore around their VST versions. NI are relatively speaking platform and plug in type nuetral. There was definitely and earlier version of Reaktor for one that had serious issues with crashes when moving knobs or sliders on the VST version on OSX for instance.
I've run AU in Live and DP forever now, I occasionally run the VST version, mainly if there's an issue which is rare. Preset handling wise I've learned a long time ago that it's best to save presets in the plug in itself, which AU tends to handle better as far as using in other hosts in my experience.

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Re: AU vs VST...discovery?

Post by glitchrock-buddha » Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:33 pm

Machinesworking wrote:The reason for VSTs in Kore is pretty straightforward really. As Kore was touted as a universal platform, a Kore performance with VSTs was able to work on both OSX and Windows, so NI developed Kore around their VST versions. NI are relatively speaking platform and plug in type nuetral. There was definitely and earlier version of Reaktor for one that had serious issues with crashes when moving knobs or sliders on the VST version on OSX for instance.
There's one additional good reason to use VSTs in Kore. Kore has typically been known to be more stable when not mixing plug-in types (so sticking to VST or AU in an instance). Since the internal engines are VST, it makes sense to go with VSTs all around in it. But yeah the cross-platform is another big benefit. Not just in Kore but just with VSTs in general (in Ableton sets for instance or for preset sharing).
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