rendering songs with frozen tracks.

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
savyurrecords
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Re: rendering songs with frozen tracks.

Post by savyurrecords » Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:23 pm

Not any that I could fathom. Though I am sure there is someone out there who swears by it...just not me. I say go ahead and render. Why waste time?

kev herb
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Re: rendering songs with frozen tracks.

Post by kev herb » Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:50 pm

funken wrote:Yeah. The manual say frozen tracks are always played back with warp on in beats mode, but that doesn't necessarily mean it exports it like that.
shit! really 8O 8O (i really must get around to reading the manual) my guess would be that it does render that way as it renders the master bus. IMO all warping other than repitch is shit not just in ableton (espetially beats mode) how ever if the warp is not doing anything ie. the tempo of the clip was already correct i wonder if this will have any effect on the sound? thanks for bringing this to my attention.
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cids
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Re: rendering songs with frozen tracks.

Post by cids » Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:08 am

Warping will have no effect if you don't change the tempo...
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mihai
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Re: rendering songs with frozen tracks.

Post by mihai » Sat Jul 09, 2011 11:24 pm

it's not an issue if everything sounded fine unfrozen. do a render and listen back, if some sort
of unimaginable anomaly made it's way in there then rerender unfrozen or flattened.

ze2be
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Re: rendering songs with frozen tracks.

Post by ze2be » Sat Jul 09, 2011 11:42 pm

kev herb wrote:IMO all warping other than repitch is shit not just in ableton (espetially beats mode) how ever if the warp is not doing anything ie. the tempo of the clip was already correct i wonder if this will have any effect on the sound? thanks for bringing this to my attention.
OT, but: I hope we get a "warp mode" similar to rex files. The current slice system is really just a work around. What would be supreme would be audio files with embedded slicing. Because its the best sounding beat "warp" method ever. Its really time consuming to create wav rex files with Recycle. But it is the only beat-warp type that sounds good, when changing the tempo, even drastic tempo changes can be fine.

I can really not understand if the Recycle coders have a patent on the method! /sorry for the OT!!

perplex
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Re: rendering songs with frozen tracks.

Post by perplex » Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:01 pm

funken wrote:ok, here is their reply

Dear Fran,

Thank you for contacting Ableton.

When you freeze a track it's rendered to 32-bit audio. What you hear on the frozen track is what you get. The Warp Mode is indeed on Beats after freezing, but since nothing has been warped in the newly rendered audio, it should not dilute the quality.

Please do not hesitate to ask if you have any further questions.

Best,
Madeleine


Ableton Technical Support
uh huh

drewbixcube
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Re: rendering songs with frozen tracks.

Post by drewbixcube » Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:55 pm

If you're worried about losing audio quality from freezing, unfreeze and re-sample your track to a new audio track, then render with the new audio, unfrozen. This is basically what freezing does under the hood anyway, but freezing is typically less time consuming. If you're not worried about it, don't.

Personally, if my computer is getting bogged down by a set, I like to think of more creative ways to alleviate some of the stress on the system. One example would be to do a mixdown of just the drums before including the rest of the song. I find it's limitations like this that produce the best results.

The Beatles recorded on a 4-track in this way. Mixing 4 elements down to 1, then adding 3 more, and so forth.

Hermanus
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Re: rendering songs with frozen tracks.

Post by Hermanus » Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:34 pm

resampling/recording audio to another track is the way I Do since I've been disappointed by freeze feature.

It is even faster if you don't have a huge liveset

Palmer Eldritch
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Re: rendering songs with frozen tracks.

Post by Palmer Eldritch » Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:43 pm

ze2be wrote:OT, but: I hope we get a "warp mode" similar to rex files. The current slice system is really just a work around. What would be supreme would be audio files with embedded slicing. Because its the best sounding beat "warp" method ever. Its really time consuming to create wav rex files with Recycle. But it is the only beat-warp type that sounds good, when changing the tempo, even drastic tempo changes can be fine.
In fact there is warp mode similar to rex-files. Try the "beat mode" and set "preserve" to "transient" then set the "loop mode" (beneath the preserve mode -> the parameter field with the small arrow/s) to "off" (one arrow). Now every segment (defined by the positions of warp and transient marker) is playing (without stretching) to its end. With the envelop parameter you have a simple decay envelop for every segment.

regards, palmer
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Dragonbreath
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Re: rendering songs with frozen tracks.

Post by Dragonbreath » Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:53 pm

cids wrote:Warping will have no effect if you don't change the tempo...
That depends on the warp mode... complex and complex pro will affect the audio even at the same tempo, Beat and resample dont do anything to the audio unless you change tempo as you said..

From what I understand freezing yout track will not loose audio quality unless you change tempo or do some kind of warp after its frozen.

Hermanus
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Re: rendering songs with frozen tracks.

Post by Hermanus » Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:52 pm

funken wrote:will give it a try, why are you disappointed with freeze?
Well when I got the audio track resulting from an instrument and the audio is not sounding quite the same as the real macCoy, I am disappointed.

It's not happening everytime, sometimes it seems like it cuts some long lfo's you would have in an instrument, the resulting audio is a less deeper evolving sound.
Or it even can reverse some lfo, inversing phases.

I insist again, it did happen maybe 3 or 4 times but since then I record to audio.

Maybe it has been fixed for a longtime and I'm not aware of :oops: :mrgreen:
Dragonbreath wrote:
cids wrote:Warping will have no effect if you don't change the tempo...
That depends on the warp mode... complex and complex pro will affect the audio even at the same tempo, Beat and resample dont do anything to the audio unless you change tempo as you said..

From what I understand freezing yout track will not loose audio quality unless you change tempo or do some kind of warp after its frozen.
One more reason to record to audio.
You can record at any bpm you want and have samples ready for use in any purpose.
With freeze in session it will freeze in only one bpm, in arrangement then, it follows the master track bpm.
But again you'll have to isolate the frozen clips you want for later use, maybe consolidating and there you have bunches of trashy audio files.
Record direct to audio and have only the parts you need.

Only my point of view :wink:

Dragonbreath
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Re: rendering songs with frozen tracks.

Post by Dragonbreath » Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:05 pm

I dont see any advantage to recording audio... its longer then freezing, same result (well assuming no errors are done in the freezing and ive never encountered any)

also with freezing you can unfreeze and modify the settings after the fact... with recording you have to commit... this can sometimes be a good thing though... to prevent endless tweaking

Both methods give the results...

invol
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Re: rendering songs with frozen tracks.

Post by invol » Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:15 am

funken wrote:Yeah. The manual say frozen tracks are always played back with warp on in beats mode, but that doesn't necessarily mean it exports it like that.
Where in the manual did you find that? I can't find it.

Thx.

invol
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Re: rendering songs with frozen tracks.

Post by invol » Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:40 am

Awesome. Thanks. Didn't look in the Fact Sheet part of the manual.

infinitesinewave
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Re: rendering songs with frozen tracks.

Post by infinitesinewave » Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:49 pm

I'm working with a vocal track right now with multiple effects in Ableton. Because of everything that I'm throwing on these vocals, I have no choice but to freeze the track. This one track alone gobbles up 20% of my processing power. Part of the reason for this is because I'm using some new synths and effects from Native Instruments which are CPU hogs. Freezing the track DEFINITELY degrades the quality of the track. I hear again and again on bass parts, guitar parts, vocal parts... etc. In order to solve this problem, I bounce the track to audio first, then freeze the track I bounced and mute it (in case I need to tweak it later... hopefully NOT because it's a long process) using the bounced audio track as my final. It's a longer process but quite necessary if you want your track to sound awesome in the end.

Infinite Sinewave
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