Why did Native Instruments stop producing Kore 2,

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Jome7
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Why did Native Instruments stop producing Kore 2,

Post by Jome7 » Sun Jul 10, 2011 12:33 am

I have seen it posted on news sites, it seems weird that they would stop producing Kore all of a sudden, and all of the expansion packs available for it, and the Kore Player.

The stories say that it is because they want to concentrate on Maschine, but to me they seem like two different products that are meant for different groups of customers. What do you think, and do you agree with their decision?
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starving student
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Re: Why did Native Instruments stop producing Kore 2,

Post by starving student » Sun Jul 10, 2011 12:50 am

I don't use kore but I still understand your question, I believe they did not even expect maschine to take off like it has, and it already had some kore leaning functionality of course it's not kore but they found the potential in this unexpected happy accident, kind of like those old recees peanutbutter commercials where people kept bumping into each other getting their chocolate and their peanutbutter mixed up and to their suprise loving it.

but now they've pioneered a model that has to be reckoned with, and now they can see that the core features of kore would be a great addition to any drumsampling instrument, and they can see that the superior workflow of a drumsampling instrument can be of great benefit to everybody as well to when it comes to getting their groove on and getting tech out of the way so that you can write some music. when it's all said and done it won't be too much unlike ableton, you'll be able to groove to whatever heights you want without geeking the fuck out or you'll be able to get as complicated as you want and you'll be able to mix the two to whatever degree is good for you. the difference is that they brought that ethos together in a better way than anybody else with not just any hardware but with the right hardware and it's working. It needs allot of improving but they are def going in the right direction.

Machinesworking
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Re: Why did Native Instruments stop producing Kore 2,

Post by Machinesworking » Sun Jul 10, 2011 2:51 am

Personally NI has been a rocky but interesting ride for sure. Bought Absynth and the upgrade to Komplete 2 was cheap so I went for it.
Since that time NI have abandoned:
Bandstand,
Spektral Delay,
Kontakt,
Intakt,
B4,
Pro 53,
Akoustic Piano,
Elektric Piano, and I'm probably forgetting one. [edit] Vocator- really pretty sweet vocoder, hugely versatile. [/edit]

Anyway they have a history of giving up on a product they see as dead or maybe better integrated into their other products:
Intakt, and Kompact can both be replicated in Kontact, and the libraries from Elektric, Bandstand and Acoustic Piano also work in Kontact.
B4 had heavy competition from sample libraries so they decided to just include libraries in Kontact as well. Pro 53 they just ditched, maybe figuring that the Arturia verison had more steam dunno. Same with Spektral Delay. <--- that one in particular I found annoying, cool delay, too bad NI decided they don't even have the resources to keep a freaking delay up to date....

Kore is still a part of my live set up, I work with a real drummer, full kit etc. I have no need for Maschine. What I do need is a performance oriented device that offers better than MIDI resolution and ways of stacking VSTs etc. Kore offers that. NI decided they don't want to fund Kore as a lot of the resources for Kore are similar to their MPC clone. So for me this isn't any way of the future cool thing, it's flat out annoying. My only solution now is to get Max 4 Live and use Live's Racks, which personally I don't like. The simple fact that on off states are controlled in Racks by knobs seems hugely lazy and unintuitive, but hey, so many other parts of Live are great, and with Kore I was happy to use Racks only when I had to.
It's a huge fiasco, and makes little sense, NI IMO had something really unique in Kore, Novations Automap is cool, but I don't see any quick and easy way to control parameters in multiple instruments and FX with morphing changes between sounds etc. Same with Max/MSP cool stuff, but getting more than 128 steps in Max? haven't looked into it, but I would assume it involves some pretty techy shit I don't really want to deal with NRPMs etc. since I doubt Max 4 Live addresses Track Automation and hardware like Kore does. I'm going to use Kore until it dies, save my money for M4L and just recognize that with NI nothing is sacred, it's possible in five years or less Maschine is gone, and their older synths.... I've thought about getting a Receptor for Spektral Delay and B4 etc. but that doesn't help with Kore as it's not compatible with Receptor....

Anyway it sucks, NI have a history of dropping products, I still like their kit, but I think for the most part it's wise to remember that they aren't Propellerheads who haven't abandoned anything in Reason that would prevent you from opening songs from 10 years ago, so print to audio. I'll say they've been pretty cool about offering some sound packs, but that was after a 100 page thread on their forums of people being deeply disappointed.

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Re: Why did Native Instruments stop producing Kore 2,

Post by timothyallan » Sun Jul 10, 2011 3:11 am

Perhaps because Kore was dumb?

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Re: Why did Native Instruments stop producing Kore 2,

Post by Machinesworking » Sun Jul 10, 2011 3:24 am

timothyallan wrote:Perhaps because Kore was dumb?
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Re: Why did Native Instruments stop producing Kore 2,

Post by timothyallan » Sun Jul 10, 2011 3:27 am

Sorry, didn't know there was a word limit.

It's just a hunch, not based on anything factual.

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Re: Why did Native Instruments stop producing Kore 2,

Post by Machinesworking » Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:29 am

timothyallan wrote:Sorry, didn't know there was a word limit.

It's just a hunch, not based on anything factual.
...after my post about how I thought it was really unique and disappointing that they discontinued it, why on earth wouldn't you expect me to react?
You call something dumb that somebody just expressed respect for, without any facts = trolling = 4chan is that way --->

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Re: Why did Native Instruments stop producing Kore 2,

Post by timothyallan » Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:21 am

Just because you think it's unique doesn't invalidate my claim that I thought it was a dumb concept. Trolling would mean that I had no basis for the comment and was just trying to get a rise out of you.

This isn't an off the cuff thing. I honestly think it was a dumb product, in fact, I thought so from day one and had mentioned it to many people.

Just how you think the bitwig name is "dumb", whereas I think it's clever and nerdy.

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Re: Why did Native Instruments stop producing Kore 2,

Post by Machinesworking » Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:56 am

timothyallan wrote:Just because you think it's unique doesn't invalidate my claim that I thought it was a dumb concept. Trolling would mean that I had no basis for the comment and was just trying to get a rise out of you.

This isn't an off the cuff thing. I honestly think it was a dumb product, in fact, I thought so from day one and had mentioned it to many people.

Just how you think the bitwig name is "dumb", whereas I think it's clever and nerdy.
OK now you're changing your story, before it was this:
It's just a hunch, not based on anything factual.
So exactly how does long standing well thought out opinions on products relate to just a hunch and not based on anything factual?
Now you're insinuating that you haven't held this opinion about Kore as an off the cuff thing. Are you not able to see why I would think you're just looking for an argument? Just to grind this in, you haven't named one reason why you thought Kore was dumb, you add nothing to the conversation except derision, yet again expect that you have a right to your 'opinion'. Again, how are you not trolling?Also what in the hell does an opinion on a product have to do with an opinion about branding? lol! really?

I simply refuse to believe your emotional capacity for rational understanding and compassion is that of a kid. I and others who liked Kore just lost a huge part of our workflow and to go posting that you thought it was dumb, giving no reasons, when me and the OP here obviously aren't happy with losing hours of work in the future and a device we obviously liked is akin to kicking a sick dog. If it's not trolling it's emotional density of the thickest caliber. Fuck it, got to get up and go to work in the morning, later. --->

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Re: Why did Native Instruments stop producing Kore 2,

Post by timothyallan » Sun Jul 10, 2011 9:34 am

Wow :lol: I was just answering the OP, not telling you that I don't sympathize with your loss of workflow.

Well, it's still not based on anything factual, other than my opinion about the product. Unless you count the fact that it is my opinion, then yes, that is a fact.

One reason I found Kore dumb was that I don't use, or save presets. Nor do I have use for a preset jukebox, some people do, although obviously not enough people to keep the product a viable option for NI.

In regards to your Bitwig comments, an opinion is an opinion, no? Whether or not it's about a product, branding, a car, a woman or any number of things. You're allowed to have an opinion, and so am I. Just because mine differs from yours doesn't make it wrong.

Emotional density is a good description actually! It's a rough and windy road at times!

Edit: Spelling!

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Re: Why did Native Instruments stop producing Kore 2,

Post by Machinesworking » Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:59 pm

As I thought, you like many other people didn't really get Kore. That I believe is the main reason they couldn't keep up the initial sales etc.
Preset browsing is probably the least reason I used it. The main reason is quick and solid set ups for live performance use. In Live setting up a single controller to perform 13 different things in 13 different songs requires you to open 13 Live Sets in a performance. With Kore it's all in one song, Kore remaps the 8 knobs and buttons to the new devices with a Program Change message, so you could set up Kore to change presets or entire synths in mid song. Anything muted in Kore would throw give CPU back, so you can have 16 instruments on one track, with 15 muted and no CPU flipping out etc.
Now all that's possible with M4L, but it's going to never be as elegant I would bet, and it will only work in Live, with Kore I could import a song to Digital Performer and all the mappings are intact. I can see myself learning M4L, but I would bet that to a degree for each Set it simply won't be as easy to set all this up. Probably most keyboard players are playing workstations live, and people like me who play a keyboard and guitar live aren't a huge portion of NI's audience these days, as most people have no issue DJing a set of their own songs etc. Personally that would bore me, as only firing clips live would.

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Re: Why did Native Instruments stop producing Kore 2,

Post by arachnaut » Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:02 pm

Kore causes people to get emotional.

I thought it wasn't too useful until I got it at half price and played with it.

Besides the fabulous morphing feature I like having a librarian/browser that can handle 30,000 (or more) presets in a meaningful way.

I wish Live had a useful librarian.

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Re: Why did Native Instruments stop producing Kore 2,

Post by glitchrock-buddha » Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:26 am

timothy you mut think that racks are dumb too in Live? The ability to layer multiple plug-ins is useless? Or is it that Kore lets you route not only audio within it's different channels but also midi, thus allowing for exxample a single keyboard instrument where you can play an instrument but also on another section of the keyboard trigger midi effects like artillery which are processing the other instrument you're playing. Tell me another way to do that on a single track. That's right there isn't one. Or is it the morph squares that are dumb? The ability to make a different control layout for each preset, like racks but with many pages of macros, where the macros can then be assigned as sub presets to morph squares and be morphed between settings. Let's Alchemy does that and it's one of it's coolest features... where did it get that idea... dumb Kore maybe? Or maybe it's just a big preset browser and a stupid way of having all of your komplete presets under one well organized tagging and attribute system...

I can't tell you many things kore makes way easier. Even as a send effect devices that you route back to itself and within multiple channels in a single instance fo interesting feedback chains. Or as a container for multi-out plug-ins like drum machines, allowing to keep it contained in one track.

The simle truth you may not have a need for Kore and that's quite alright. But if you actually think it's a dumb product and not immensely useful in so many ways, you simply don't understand it. No offense meant.
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Machinesworking
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Re: Why did Native Instruments stop producing Kore 2,

Post by Machinesworking » Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:50 am

glitchrock-buddha wrote: The simle truth you may not have a need for Kore and that's quite alright. But if you actually think it's a dumb product and not immensely useful in so many ways, you simply don't understand it. No offense meant.
Personally I think you nailed it in a way, people just didn't get it, and NI did a crappy job of explaining it. One of the Videos is on automation in your DAW.... which is dead easy to figure out and no different than any plug in really.... I think if you're not interested in playing keyboards live it's probably a little harder to sell it, but as far as being a live performance tool, only thing that compares is Live, and Live is a DAW, Racks aren't there as far as hosting 16 instrument plug ins in a single track without much pain and suffering anyway. NI should have aggressively targeted the synth workstation crowd with Kore, but I don't think they did. :?

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Re: Why did Native Instruments stop producing Kore 2,

Post by starving student » Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:43 am

so how much of a hit do you take for this functionality and I'm asking while understanding that if you mute something you reap those resources back, but is the consensus that it's easy on most peoples systems or is it too hungry?

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