stamina for producing full songs

bassistheplace · Post by **bassistheplace** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:51 pm

Hey I'm having kind of a hard time with something..

I feel like I understand many of the important "concepts" of producing a good-sounding tuneee, but at the same time I feel like I've lost creativity and stamina to make a full song (I now work on a tune for maybe 20 minutes and stop, whereas I used to work on it for hours.). When I didn't know of these concepts or how I like to do them, I would be able to make a tune within a few days and be reasonably satisfied. feel me?

Please leave your thoughts and some methods you use to increase stamina or creativity.

BTW I've tried things like putting randomvalues into synths and arranging them haphazardly..and then working with that, but have found that I'm not satisfied.

thaaaaaaanks!

memes_33 · Post by **memes_33** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:57 pm

it takes me months to finish a track, and i only finish 1 out of 5 that i start. what drives me usually is that i like the track- its in my head all day and i just want to spend more time improving it.

have you tried using a different DAW? live is great for coming up with ideas, but, for some reason, people have trouble moving from a few loops to an arrangement.

bassistheplace · Post by **bassistheplace** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:08 am

I have fruity loops but the workflow seems quite different from live's

Are there any programs with a similar workflow to live that you can recommend?

oh and thanks for the prompt replyyy

noland · Post by **noland** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:20 am

take a break, music will come back to you

infiniteB · Post by **infiniteB** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:23 am

stamina is a bad word in this case i think. it's almost like training to finish a race with a finish line. when one has the desire, need, quest, feeling, burden, blessing to continue/review/erase/modulate/try alternatives to .000000001 of a second of a piece, one can't help to do to. Making a solid, "hit" song is easy once one realizes what what means. It can be pieced together in "no time". Making something that moves you like never before, that you grow to love, hate, have to help, quiz, send off to school - yes like a kid - is where it's at IMHO. Did Michael Jordan question how he would get the stamina if he got into game 7? Did Jimmy Page before working on ZOSO? Did Ron Jeremy before another scene with 4 chicks and a donkey? We will never know, but passion has no concern for little things, cheesy things like stamina. Please take that the right way.

perplex · Post by **perplex** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:16 am

infiniteB wrote:stamina is a bad word in this case i think. it's almost like training to finish a race with a finish line. when one has the desire, need, quest, feeling, burden, blessing to continue/review/erase/modulate/try alternatives to .000000001 of a second of a piece, one can't help to do to. Making a solid, "hit" song is easy once one realizes what what means. It can be pieced together in "no time". Making something that moves you like never before, that you grow to love, hate, have to help, quiz, send off to school - yes like a kid - is where it's at IMHO. Did Michael Jordan question how he would get the stamina if he got into game 7? Did Jimmy Page before working on ZOSO? Did Ron Jeremy before another scene with 4 chicks and a donkey? We will never know, but passion has no concern for little things, cheesy things like stamina. Please take that the right way.

lol! ok we get it. people that have a passion for music don't need stamina

jestermgee · Post by **jestermgee** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:22 am

It's a common thing...

Just like writers block, or a pie eating contest, sometimes you just aren't into it....

During the Summer months here in Australia I can't concentrate on music. Too nice outside I just want to get drunk and lay on the beach (coz thats all us Auzzies do). Now it's winter I have completed 4 tracks in the last 2 weeks but I did just get a new soft synth and have been hammering that a lot. Always good for some inspiration to change from something different.

Some suggestions I have taken from others and used myself and ones I like to do:

- Take on a remix project. Get a song you like and just remix for fun. Try match the elements with your own. Cut up the song, extend it, layer things... Then take the song away and fill it in. Make something new from that. The good thing about this is you have a structure to work with already. You might do something as simple as just imitate the drum section but it helps to get in the groove.

- Do a complete change of your workflow. If you always find yourself opening a blank project, opening a synth, creating a quick loop then adding drums etc, do it differently. Open an old track and go SAVE AS and create a new copy. Strip out the main melody and re-use your drums. Now decide on a synth you haven't used much and try come up with a new tune to fit your beat or whatever.

- Listen to some music subjectivly. Try and pick how many different elements are in the percussion track, how many instruments in the song completely, what sort of effects they might be using etc and see if you can create something the same from memory. This is a good test of memory and perception.

- Listen to an unfinished track staring at the ceiling or somewhere thats NOT your monitors and try picture anything you would like to hear or change (a reverse cymbol, a thud, a breakdown, a different instrument etc)and the instant you think you want to change it STOP the song and start hunting for that idea. Write it down and find something that even slightly fits the bill then just work on that small piece and save at that point.

- Set a goal! if you have a heap of unfinished tracks, open one and set a goal to add or change an idea before you close it. Add anything even if you are unsure and then save it as a copy. I like to try and set a goal for the time the song should be sometimes. Also remember that a song doesn't have to be a typical commercial filler 3.5 minutes. Try a 2 min quick idea or an epic 10-20 minute mix.

- Just Play! If you have a MIDI keyboard, load up piano, string or anything you like and just play. Don't record anything, just hit chords. If you don't know chords then this is great to start learning. Just start hittinh 2, 3, 4 keys together and see how it sounds then move your fingers. Piano is great for this because its something that sounds familiar and you can start combining chords with single notes and before you know it you have some new songs. This process netted me dozens of score tracks when I was learning chords and piano. I am still learning.

- Just take a break from the DAW and read the forums, watch youtube vids and do some research and book learning. Not as "fun" but if you can't get ideas out, start educating yourself. U'd be supprised when you learn some new tricks that you can use just how much easier getting ideas out can be.

- Don't worry about it. Look at most professional artists. If they didn't go through the same thing they would release an album each month if they could. Ideas take time. If it doesn't seem "fun" then do something else for a while and just don't even switch on your DAW. After a week or 2 you may get the itch to open a track you worked on and add some ideas.

- Create for yourself. Sounds strange but it's supprizing how many people try so hard to create music they want others to like. Of course it's great when others love your creations but it seems people can get stuck thinking their ideas are crap or don't sound like the commercial stuff and people won't like it. That's a fine attitude if your living is based off people liking your music, but if not just make sure what you are doing sounds good. If so, anything you create and any point you stop a song should be a completed track.

When you have been doing this for 15 years you tend to find a lot of things to get your juices going. Working with others is always a great inspirational thing too. Ask if anyone is interested in "jamming" and exchange loops and beats. I do this via dropbox with anyone interested. Simply export some loops, give them to someone and ask them to create something. They then export their loops and send it all back for youto add your work too. Great for ideas that one and a world wide possibility. PM me if you are interested and I can maybe start a project if you like.

starving student · Post by **starving student** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:29 am

write music about what's important to you at the time, whatever is provoking your thoughts at that moment write about that and it'll take you further........ also eat a salad when you're working on music not a hamburger and it'll keep you awake.

jestermgee · Post by **jestermgee** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:45 am

starving student wrote:write music about what's important to you at the time, whatever is provoking your thoughts at that moment write about that and it'll take you further........ also eat a salad when you're working on music not a hamburger and it'll keep you awake.

That's actually great advise but from "Starving Student" its a funny one.

starving student · Post by **starving student** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 7:59 am

jestermgee wrote:
starving student wrote:write music about what's important to you at the time, whatever is provoking your thoughts at that moment write about that and it'll take you further........ also eat a salad when you're working on music not a hamburger and it'll keep you awake.

That's actually great advise but from "Starving Student" its a funny one.

if you only knew how true my namesake was, an inexpensive salad saved my poor stomach many a time.

jestermgee · Post by **jestermgee** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:26 am

starving student wrote:
jestermgee wrote:
starving student wrote:write music about what's important to you at the time, whatever is provoking your thoughts at that moment write about that and it'll take you further........ also eat a salad when you're working on music not a hamburger and it'll keep you awake.

That's actually great advise but from "Starving Student" its a funny one.
if you only knew how true my namesake was, an inexpensive salad saved my poor stomach many a time.

Hey man, for me it was 2 minute noodles, peas and bread. Been there, done that.

monobeach · Post by **monobeach** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:39 am

here some related topics which might help:

http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php? ... ng+writing
http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php? ... sh+project
http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php? ... sh+project
http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php? ... ng+writing

tarekith also has very nice tutorials:

http://tarekith.com/assets/arranging.html

doghouse · Post by **doghouse** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:35 pm

Working in short bursts is fine. Nothing wrong with starting a song and not finishing it for weeks.

Don't get yourself bogged down in "mixing as you go" until you have all the music down. Start with any drum sound, any bass sound, etc. until you have laid all the parts down. The time to mess with detailed sound design, effects processing, etc. is when you're ready to start mixing.

The "stamina" part is easy, if you are excited about what you are doing it's not a problem, when you're bored it is. If you're boring yourself either take a break or scrap your work.

I wish people would stop using the word "creativity" so much as it has become almost meaningless. Remember the old adage: it's a fine line between clever and stupid.

bodo · Post by **bodo** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:05 pm

Yeah, the thing is to make sure you're having fun. Not try to overdo things in the beginning, just play and add stuff, try to keep a certain momentum. It really helps not to worry about the details in the beginning, just focus on recording some (great) playing and deal with the sound later. That said, it can be a real inspiration to start out with some great sounds, but don't worry about compression & EQ in this stage.

Compose, arrange and the mix are the stages I usually go with. They sort of overlap, but I still try to focus on these parts seperately.

It can boost your output vastly, nowadays I tend to have the composing & arrangement part down within a day or two, and then leave it a little while before I start mixing. The mixing part usually takes another day or so, with some more arranging happening (a decent arrangement surely helps the mix a great deal).

Just don't sweat it, if you love what you do, the music comes right back at you. So much, that you'll feel like a dog racing behind a mechanical rabbit, 'cos you never quite can keep up with all the musical ideas that come to your mind.

Relax & have fun!

dalvare1 · Post by **dalvare1** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:16 pm

I find working with other people really helps keep the ball rolling.

Im lucky enough to have a gf who is also a producer, so a lot of times I make her sit down with me when I hit a roadblock. Having a fresh set of eyes and brain giving input helps move forward, especially if you can find someone whos strengths are your weaknesses.

I would send some of what you are working on to your friends or people you know online and get the conversation started so you can find different places to take what you currently have going

stamina for producing full songs

stamina for producing full songs

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