Detroit/Deep Techno/House : Melodic Part

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
TechnoLover
Posts: 236
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:57 pm

Detroit/Deep Techno/House : Melodic Part

Post by TechnoLover » Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:46 am

Hello everybody!

I am back with some questions... I hope you'll be okay to share some of your knowledge again with me :D

Everything is getting better with the rythmic parts, but I am still facing some problems with the melodic part. (used a lot of "one shot" samples for the stabs and some melodic stuff, but it sounds too linear... there are not enough variations and the sound isn't warm enough at all)

Every tip about the detroit techno melodic part (also good for deep techno) is welcome! (Patterns construction, FXs, VSts about Synths, Stabs, Strings, Pads, ...)



I know they use arpgegiators on most of their melodies (almost, on the "new" detroit vibe)
--> examples : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBdtDDdKE_M / http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSkXFR95tQk / http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIFCIEGTpn8

About the strings/pads/waveforms ...
--> Here is the perfect example of what I am looking for : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsBUDof0JnQ

Thank you so much in advance!

Long life to ableton live! :-D

TechnoLover
Posts: 236
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:57 pm

Re: Detroit/Deep Techno/House : Melodic Part

Post by TechnoLover » Sat Jul 16, 2011 7:21 am

up :arrow:

TechnoLover
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Re: Detroit/Deep Techno/House : Melodic Part

Post by TechnoLover » Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:49 am

TechnoLover wrote:up :arrow:

foxymethoxy
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Re: Detroit/Deep Techno/House : Melodic Part

Post by foxymethoxy » Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:28 pm

Learn music theory, there is no easy way. Detroit producers tend to actually know how to play music, rather than just try to copy and paste samples like noobs.

TechnoLover
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Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:57 pm

Re: Detroit/Deep Techno/House : Melodic Part

Post by TechnoLover » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:05 am

I know the Detroit techno history, I've been following them since the early 90's. Most of them haven't followed any musical studies and they still produced the most melodic and deep side of techno ever.

I have some musical theory notions. Not much, but that was their case too.

I am not speaking about "pasting samples like noobs" as I own some really old school analog hardware.

But thank you anyway for this amazing (useless) answer.

People used to be more friendly here... Well, I think they still are... it's simply your own way to attack people :)

dylandigits
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Re: Detroit/Deep Techno/House : Melodic Part

Post by dylandigits » Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:12 pm

I have a good ear but not much training, so I'll attempt to explain (in non-theory terminology) what's going on in each of the songs and how you might come up with something similar. I noticed you mentioned owning old gear. I don't, so I can't cite this synth or that one, or speak to the specifics of how to achieve the sounds on the hardware, but hopefully my explanations will get to the basic idea enough that you'll be able to translate it to hardware.

Here we go....

1. On that Diabla remix, it's an FM string patch. If you have Live Suite, there's an ok patch in the Instrument Rack presets-- "FM Orchestra". FM8 from Native Instruments has a better one. I'm sure other VSTs have them, too. Play with the width and add a little reverb and/or delay to fill it out. Messing with a lo pass filter will help it alternate between moody and subtle (when most of the high end is cut) to bright and anthemic (when the high end is present).

2. For Promenade Eleven, there's a few simple things going on, and that's the secret: layering. Find a key you like, plunk out a little line of melody (your "theme", basically) using a short, percussive sound, and then start adding in elements to fill it out. In the case of this track, it's a pad or strings played an octave lower, set back in the mix. This is the only melodic element that is really changing; the chord progression is a simple one but gives a sense of forward momentum to the song. Towards the end of the track there's a little added melody that offers a little variation on the side while the main theme is still going; this can be very useful from a DJ's perspective if you want to play the entire track but don't want to have the dancefloor bored by the 5 minute mark.

3. Messier 66 has that classic (perhaps overused) "Detroit Techno minor 7th chord pad" going on. There are patches that actually take care of the chord for you, and your job is to pick a single note to play while it takes care of the rest. Other solutions include just sampling the chord from a song you like and throwing it in Sampler/Simpler.

I was able to use that same FM Orchestra patch from my Diabla example and recreate this sound, too-- just make Oscillator A's initial volume 0.00 so it has a strong attack, then add a lo-pass filter with strong attack but short decay. Then, play with the filter decay length during the track to introduce some variation. Whichever direction you go, the key to success with that sound is subtle messing with the lo-pass cutoff frequency and then adding reverb and delay (play with the dry/wet on those, too!).

....

I don't hear much arpeggiation going on, unless I'm missing something. That said, the arpeggiator in Live can be a great tool for those of us who don't have the technical chops to play a decent solo with variations; set it to "random" and see what you come up with.

I hope this gets you going in the direction you'd like.

TechnoLover
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Re: Detroit/Deep Techno/House : Melodic Part

Post by TechnoLover » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:52 pm

that's what I call an answer! thank you SO MUCH, man!

gotta check this out tonight!

for the strings/pads I also read it was a good idea to work with some oldschool stuff such as Prophet 8, ARP260, ... Did you hear about them?

TechnoLover
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Re: Detroit/Deep Techno/House : Melodic Part

Post by TechnoLover » Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:10 pm

oh yes, that really does! thank you so much!

fratts
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Re: Detroit/Deep Techno/House : Melodic Part

Post by fratts » Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:36 am

Some really great advice here :)

lachance_11@msn.com
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Re: Detroit/Deep Techno/House : Melodic Part

Post by lachance_11@msn.com » Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:24 pm

Just wanted to say that these are amazing tips and I cant wait to try them out. Thank you!

TechnoLover
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Re: Detroit/Deep Techno/House : Melodic Part

Post by TechnoLover » Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:38 pm

if anyone got any live/vst's pressets for Detroit sounds, feel free to post 'em too :-D

TechnoLover
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Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:57 pm

Re: Detroit/Deep Techno/House : Melodic Part

Post by TechnoLover » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:33 am

Thanks for the tips, man!

Got FM and the D16 bundle for some months now. I also downloaded the free VSTs some time ago.

Just wondering if anyone can make an instrument rack/presset for Operator or one of these VSTs we were talking about to get them sounding the good way :D ?

TechnoLover
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Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:57 pm

Re: Detroit/Deep Techno/House : Melodic Part

Post by TechnoLover » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:28 am

is there any way to get in touch with you in private? (send me a mail address if you're okay!)

no problem if you don't want to :D

lasersounds
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Re: Detroit/Deep Techno/House : Melodic Part

Post by lasersounds » Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:49 pm

i honestly didnt hear to many melodies in the songs you posted. i think you may be misunderstanding melody. there are motifs, but theres not alot of chords to support so theres not a strong melody. trance is a more melodic music, pop is very melodic(as in its the part you hum after the song quit playing, you cant really hum many techno tracks)

techno is a more rhythmic music, so concentrate on interesting rhythms while following a mode.

Kirk Degiorgio
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Re: Detroit/Deep Techno/House : Melodic Part

Post by Kirk Degiorgio » Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:16 am

Hi

thought i'd take time to reply as I saw this whilst looking for more info regarding OS X Lion and Live 8.

out of the 4 examples you posted - 1 is by myself and 2 others are on my label so I hope I can help ;-)

Equipment used: DSI PolyEvolver (great for warm pads playing 4 note chords), NI FM8 - great for tight, percussive
melodies (experiment with the arpeggiator), Trilogy (powerful bass - again experiment with the arpeggiator),
drums are mostly NI Maschine or NI Battery.

Both myself and The Third Man (Toby Leeming) use Ableton to create and arrange tracks - I then export at 96k into Logic for
mixing.

I am not a musician - but like most Detroit producers (I'm from the UK btw) - I have a kind of 'amateur' knowledge of
harmony/melody and this is very helpful.

I find it's a balance between finding interesting chord progressions without them sounding too 'trance-like' - Detroit Techno seems to
lean towards darker, more complex 'jazz' type voicings whereas trance is more euphoric 'classical/european' (experiment with major vs minor chords and you'll soon hear the difference).

The rhythm of course is all important - and I process everything thru top end analog outboard gear for warmth, clarity and punch.

good luck and glad you're finding our sound inspiring... it means a lot!

Kirk
http://www.planetary-folklore.blogspot.com
http://www.myspace.com/kirkdegiorgio

Mac Pro 8 Core, 2GB RAM, OS 10.5.8, Logic 9.02, Live 8.1.3, Prism Sound Orpheus.
MacBook Pro 2.26ghz Core 2 Duo, 2GB RAM, OS 10.6.3, Live 8.1.3, Akai APC40, NI Audio 4DJ.

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