Ableton Forum

OK, this is pretty basic.

How can I describe this...a live set with say 6 tracks on it...everything seems to happen in your face...I gather that making music feel 3-D is about volume and fading?

Does anyone get what I'm trying to say? I need more texture in this thing.

Some stereo imagining would help, as well as proper mixing

heres a link someone posted on another thread, really helped with grasping the concept

http://www.moultonlabs.com/more/princip ... tom_image/

homeboy, that spoke directly, clearly, and emphatically to my question. Thank you. It's like red meat to me. The Haas Effect -- that's my home.

Now then, how does a newbie start to apply this knowledge in Live? I guess I'm going to have to pull in a delay tool to my rhythm guitar track, for example? And I'm assuming that will be pan-able?

Lost of practice and experimentation is the only... readings will show you the road but you have to walk it...

Im no expert in stereo imaging either.. just though you like the article... before that for me imaging was all about the pan...

Dragonbreath wrote:Lost of practice and experimentation is the only... readings will show you the road but you have to walk it...

Im no expert in stereo imaging either.. just though you like the article... before that for me imaging was all about the pan...

Yeah, that seems logical, until you read the article, and then THAT seems logical. Once he mentioned the effect of echo on location (or what I call "triangulation") I knew that was the key. But manipulating echo in Live is something that...well, let's put it this way, it's "a road I have to walk."

...and right now, I'm still trying to figure out what the bass riff should be...what the melody should be....

i wouldn't worry about depth until you have the parts down and arranged. if you're just learning and want to fool around with depth, though, think about it in terms of space. how close or far do you want each part to be? the 'main' parts are usually louder (as loudness lets you determine how 'important' a part is) with little reverb or delay. other parts that are more background in nature are quieter in the mix, with more reverb or delay. this mimics human hearing- if you hear a sound that is quiet relative to its delay/reverb tail, and loud sounds without much spacial information will sound right up against your ear.

an easy way to create a little space in your track would be to put a reverb or delay in one of the return tracks, lets say return track 'A'. you should set the mix to 100% wet (i.e. only the effected sound is audible in the track). fool around with turning send 'A' up/down on each track to create some space. main instruments are usually panned in the middle, but panning supporting instruments left or right will give you more space as well. close your eyes when you are fiddling with it and try to conceptualize where everything 'is' space wise- far, near, right, left, up, down...

thx for the ideas and info. I haven't done anything with "sends" yet...not sure where to begin with those.

seems like a joystick would be the right tool to do this with.

Yah most common tips for this kinda stuff is bass drum and bass, main vocal dead center, guitar, far right, keys far left ect.'

Revers and delays on sends helps too as mentionned, but there more for "gelling" things together. Give it the impression its all in the same room.
So you send varying amounts to the same "channel" containg a reverb or delay... this comes more from the days of analog were you had limited amount of effects (as they were rack mounts). this is less an issue with DAWs, the main advantage is more cpu efficent for high quality reverbs and since its passing trough the same processing it helps them "fit" together. Remember though that sends work in parallel with your tracks, so its adding not replacing

The main thing I retained from the article I posted is that you get more by delaying left right then panning for stereo effect.

If the sounds hits your left ear a little sooner then your right one then it gives your brain the impression that sound is coming more from the left then the right. For this you would small amounts of delay (no more then about 10ms)

Theres alot of stuff out there dont freak out if you dont understand it all, no one does... just remember to have fun with it

having the time of my life, dude!