is it possible to sync ableton live to cd players?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
eturnol
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is it possible to sync ableton live to cd players?

Post by eturnol » Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:08 am

hi i have two numark axis 8s which have midi in/outs and i have had success syncing them to each other, but syncing ableton live is proving really difficult.

my first question would be:

is it even possible to sync ableton live to two cd players at once using a midi clock?

if so then,

what cd players did you have success with?

what midi interface did you use to sync the three together?

how did you set up the cables in order to sync them?

thanks!

radder
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Post by radder » Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:36 am

how does the MIDI sync work on the CD players? Does each have MIDI in and out? I think if they transmit MIDI clock you could figure out a way to do it using a MIDI splitter or two and perhaps a merger. But it's dangerous getting carried away with connections when you're trying to make music using early 80's data transfer technology...
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eturnol
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midi sync

Post by eturnol » Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:01 pm

so no one has figured out how to sync ableton live to either cd players, like the numark axis series, or a mixer with midi, like the xone 92???

yes my cd players do have a midi in and out, and they can send and recieve midi clock data. the axis series is less than ideal though.

I have successfully synced one numark axis 8 to ableton live, using the midi clock of the cd player as the master, and ableton live as the slave. it works pretty well.

but two at once is proving nearly impossible. ideally, i would want ableton live as the master, as that would give me the most control over the tempo, and both cd players would react the same. however, when ableton live exports a midi clock, both cd players just go crazy, and their bpms just go all over the place. it isnt pretty.

so unfortunately, i have to have each cd player take turns being the master, and while i can get one at a time to sync to ableton live, two do not sync at once, which would make smooth mixing impossible.

i am thinking maybe i need to try something else, like a xone 92. is it possible to use this to sync cd players to ableton live? either that or i need to use some other midi interface. what should i do?

AdamJay
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Post by AdamJay » Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:05 pm

you need a redsound microsync.

http://www.synthony.com/vintage/microsync.html

good luck finding one, they've been discontinued. but you should be able to find one used.

eturnol
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sync

Post by eturnol » Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:03 pm

have you been able to sync cd players with that adam?

AdamJay
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Post by AdamJay » Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:09 pm

i dont use cd players.

Spiralgroove
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Post by Spiralgroove » Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:26 pm

if you have ableton WHY do you NEED a CD player?

:roll:

m-laboratories.net
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Post by m-laboratories.net » Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:36 pm

Spiralgroove wrote:if you have ableton WHY do you NEED a CD player?
Yeah exactly. But i'm confused by this:

Why don't you just manually beatmatch to Ableton's tempo? Unless you can get ableton to send midi clock successfully to these cd players, you're stuck with manual beatmatching. There's no way around this: You need one and only one master clock.

I guess you could theoretically use a fourth device just as a midi metronome, syncing both cdplayers and ableton to that. You might have better luck with your cds not "going crazy" to the midi input that way too. But I don't see any other way around it. For this midi metronome, Adam is right - the microsound would work. or anything else capable of generating a midi signal.

AdamJay
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Post by AdamJay » Fri Feb 11, 2005 9:14 pm

m-laboratories.net wrote:
Why don't you just manually beatmatch to Ableton's tempo?
well, he IS using 2 CD players that midi sync together... so obviously he can't be bothered with beatmatching manually.

eturnol
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midi sync

Post by eturnol » Fri Feb 11, 2005 9:40 pm

ok well this is why i want to sync cd players and ableton live

1 i don't think any one has really done this before. i have never heard of someone syncing cd players and ableton live throughout an entire set.

2. my collection of cds far outwieghs what i can rip to my hard drive. having a collection of 1000s of cds would mean that i could improvise so much more than just ripping a selection of those to wav format to use in ableton live. my hard drive isnt that big.

3. my computer isn't that fantastic. it skips and glitches quite often with too much going on, especially with effects, and i am afraid it will crash in the middle of a set. with cd players running underneath, a computer crash would not be as bad.


anyways i got these cd players not because i didnt want to beat match, but i thought it would be possible to sync them with ableton live since they had midi in/outs.



a seperate midi clock master would be a good idea. i know ableton live would be ok with it, but hopefully my cd players will respond well to that.

Celtic
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Post by Celtic » Sat Feb 12, 2005 12:53 am

Spiralgroove wrote:if you have Ableton WHY do you NEED a CD player?

:roll:
Thank god someone thinks like I do. That very thought popped into my head the second I read the title.

ejectorset
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Post by ejectorset » Sat Feb 12, 2005 12:57 am

AdamJay wrote:
m-laboratories.net wrote:
Why don't you just manually beatmatch to Ableton's tempo?
well, he IS using 2 CD players that midi sync together... so obviously he can't be bothered with beatmatching manually.
I am so glad I am not the only one that noticed that.
13" 2.0 gHz core 2 duo macbook, live 6, korg poly 800 (w/ moog slayer mod), roland rs-09, rhodes mark 1A stage piano, mattel synsonics analog drum machine

eturnol
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midi sync

Post by eturnol » Sat Feb 12, 2005 2:02 am

geez what's the big problem here?

i already know how to beat match. i think syncing two cd players throughout the entire set would free me up to improvise more, and i like the idea of getting to rely on a stable piece of hardware rather than software. other people are trying to manually beat match their cd players and i think thats the wrong way to go; you need to have them locked perfectly to let you play around with ableton live more.

anyways, i have seen pictures of djs who use laptops and cd players. i just want to know whether they sync their cd players to their software such as ableton live, or manually beat match the two for a short while.

buzzcock
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Post by buzzcock » Sat Feb 12, 2005 3:13 pm

eturnol-

I'm not sure why everyone decided to jump all over you. Syncing a cd player doesn't seem all that strange compared to some of the wacky shit that goes on here!

I don't know too much about your gear but if it outputs MIDI clock why not try plugging it into your midi interface and setting up the MIDI/Sync preference in Live to recieve it? Or the other way around if you prefer.

Seems pretty straightforward to me

eturnol
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midi sync

Post by eturnol » Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:23 pm

yeah i was able to set up the sync in ableton live with one cd player, click on the external sync button, and everyhting worked fine. it was pretty cool, i could add as much as i wanted on top of the song playing in the cd player without worrying about things slipping...

but i am trying to do the same thing with two now, and its just not working. i think my midi interface might not be ablet to handle it, which is why i wanted to know what other people used if they were successful.

ideally, i would just set up ableton live as the master, but my cd players go absolutely nuts when i do this, so im beggining to think i have to have ableton live as the slave, with each cd player taking the turns being the master. trust me, it sounds wierd but thats just the way the numark axis 8s handle sync.

i have found this...

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=r ... id/704123/

which might send a midi clock that was stable enough for my numarks to latch onto. but we'll see...

if anyone else has any ideas, the input would be greatly appreciated.

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