Noob to Ableton trying hybridizing Genres

[Rico D]

Hello everyone noob here. Just recently purchased NI Maschine and bought Presonus Safire 6 sound card which included Ableton Lite 8. I have a Korg Trton which I use as a midi controller. Anyways I've been producing hip/hip for a few years now with not too much success. Being that I don't really rap it's hard for me to get myself real good exsposure. My girlfriend is a real fan of trance and electronic music which has begin to grow on me. I do go see DJ's now and then with her cause that's her thing. Now that I have Maschine and Ableton. (oh yea I used to use Cubase for DAW). I've seen that you could perform live using this set-up. I was wondering how could I encorporate my current style (hip-hop production) with what a DJ(electronic) does and turn this into a live performing set. The biggest stumbling block I have is the song lentgh. In hip-hop a song is typically 3-4mins as to where electronic/techno/dance can be like 10mins long a song. The other thing is how everything can be set up to perform live(samples/one hits/drum loops?) From a producers standpoint I understand how there are making the music I just don't understand the arrangement for time and how long are most set. In the hip-hop world most openeing acts get about 15-30mins tops. I see these electronic DJs on stage for over a hour sometimes. Could someone please help my bridge this gap?? thanks

[Rico D]

Oh yea to hear what my current music sounds like you can got to www.soundclick.com/ricodiamond. Most of the music there was done with a Triton,MPC,Cubase and a few VSTs.

[oddstep]

trance/techno tracks get so long because they're designed to be hypnotic; its a really different aesthetic to hip hop. You heard much drum n bass or dubstep or dancehall?, the arrangements and beats make more sense in relation to hip hop. Personally I think just go with what you feel. If a track is good at 3 -4 minutes that's what it is. Playing live, you want to keep people engaged - but that is about the flow of tracks, not the length of a given track.

[Rico D]

oddstep

yes I heard some DNB and dancehall. Not to sure what dubstep is tho. I know I said I do hip hop but I do like the transitions and build ups in trance/techno along with the hypnotic feeling. This is why I said I would like to figure out a way to hybrid the two (rap/trance). Again my knowledge outside of urban or rock music is very limited in theory. So maybe there is a genre for it already and I just don't know about it. If you heard my music you'd be able to tell my hip/hop style is synthy/melodic.
Unfortunately most my friends grew up on gangsta rap and go-go music so I have no help lol except what my girlfriend can explain to me from being a raver back in the day.

[oddstep]

808 tribal beat beats and she turns me on have a rolling quality which could be extended into dance tracks with key changes, break downs where everything stops apart from one element and builds where the intensity increases through a mix of volume and rapid repetition. check out hudson mohawke, zomby. this blog has some really great tracks in its write up of the Night Slugs label "Rouges Foam" don't read the text unless unless you are pretentious like me.

[oddstep]

oh yeah, also.. its all about creating a sensation of continuous change but without any major change happening - so that stuff like a new high hat line coming in - becomes like "WHOA!"

[Rico D]

Okay, I will check that blog out when I get home. My CPU here @ work has no sound . Thanks for the insight I appreciate everything you've said so far. Also, since you actually went to my page and heard my music I'd like to say thanks! and most of those songs are intro,verse,hook,verse,hook,verse,outro format for rap/hip-hop.

[Mage2k]

trance/techno tracks get so long because they're designed to be hypnotic; its a really different aesthetic to hip hop. You heard much drum n bass or dubstep or dancehall?, the arrangements and beats make more sense in relation to hip hop. Personally I think just go with what you feel. If a track is good at 3 -4 minutes that's what it is. Playing live, you want to keep people engaged - but that is about the flow of tracks, not the length of a given track.

While, yes, the intention is to be hypnotic the specific reason that longer tracks help with that they allow longer blend mixes by djs using the tracks. Listening to a 10 minute trance track by itself can by a bit boring large parts of them are really meant to be layered with another track (and the better djs will often layer the peak portions of tracks with others, too, to really step up the energy and creativity). In fact, most dnb shares that attribute with trance (typically in the 6-10 minute range tracks) since they both share 64 beat (2x32) song phrasing. More constantly changing stuff like electro and breakbeat will often go with simple 32 beat phrasing.

[Rico D]

Aww man I listened to Dubstep last night and fell in love. I couldn't even sleep thinkin about that sh*t lol. I think that's the direction I'm going to take. I'm assuming it's a European derivative(sp) of DNB right? O and what do you mean by 32 beat phrasing? I understand beats and bars. Are those in relation to each other?

[oddstep]

Dubstep sort of evolved out of 2step garage, which evolved out of dnb. Its a london thing.

[If/then]

Dubstep was born in Croydon, London around 2000-2001ish but didn't actually get the name until a bit later. It was related to garage but incorporated production techniques from dub and jungle to give the 2-step style beats more atmosphere and depth. It has evolved into a lot of styles and subgenres but the one thing that links all of them is bassweight, it is generally in the region of 140bpm as well. Make sure you check out a few different styles to get an idea of the full spectrum. Jump up and 'brostep' are getting a lot of hype at the moment but that is a tiny part of the music that goes under the name dubstep. If you are interested in fusing hiphop styles with ideas from dubstep then a good label to check out is Seclusiasis. Look for artists like Starkey, Dev 79, BD1982, Siyoung, Rustie, Slugabed, Halp and 6Blocc, they all have quite a lot of hiphop influence but are doing interesting things with it.

If you want to know more about the origins of dubstep then have a look at these

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6pTSGvp7T8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVpjPuzlvus

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlEkvbRm ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClAbxRXF4A0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUyscDT- ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1q84ceFedo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMbMnYK5 ... re=related

[oddstep]

32 and 64 bar phrasing refers to the length of a section.

[Rico D]

if/then-
I'll check those out 2nite @ home.

odd-
got it.

[kitekrazy]

There's so many genres that it's now getting confusing. I guess if you want to make good music don't worry about following a formula. That's how the greatest composers came to be.

[3dot...]

{
Dubstep was born in Croydon, London around 2000-2001ish but didn't actually get the name until a bit later. It was related to garage but incorporated production techniques from dub and jungle to give the 2-step style beats more atmosphere and depth. It has evolved into a lot of styles and subgenres but the one thing that links all of them is bassweight, it is generally in the region of 140bpm as well. Make sure you check out a few different styles to get an idea of the full spectrum. Jump up and 'brostep' are getting a lot of hype at the moment but that is a tiny part of the music that goes under the name dubstep. If you are interested in fusing hiphop styles with ideas from dubstep then a good label to check out is Seclusiasis. Look for artists like Starkey, Dev 79, BD1982, Siyoung, Rustie, Slugabed, Halp and 6Blocc, they all have quite a lot of hiphop influence but are doing interesting things with it.

If you want to know more about the origins of dubstep then have a look at these

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6pTSGvp7T8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVpjPuzlvus

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlEkvbRm ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClAbxRXF4A0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUyscDT- ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1q84ceFedo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMbMnYK5 ... re=related

}

else...
{