Something for the Ableton development team to think about.

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
ian_halsall
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Re: Something for the Ableton development team to think about.

Post by ian_halsall » Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:10 am

I have been using xeons for years with music software - just not in 64 bit mode.

The question you have to ask is what musical problem are you hoping to fix with 64++ core cpus?

Jarvisimon
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Re: Something for the Ableton development team to think about.

Post by Jarvisimon » Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:23 pm

Too long a post to answer everything individually so i've cut the majority out.....apologies.
3dot... wrote: Ableton have innovated DAW workflow..
maybe a bit less in bleeding edge hardware support..
Ableton don't have to design the hardware. My understanding is, they buy pre-production research GPU's along with a developers kit, then spend the next 2-3+ yrs tapping code into their computers, trying to exploit every possible cycle out of the thing as they possible can.

I don't think it needs a 3rd party company to help them develop for it.
3dot... wrote:from a business point of view ...it sounds like a risk to me..
All business is a risk. The stakes are high and so are the rewards for success but that's the game.
3dot... wrote:Ableton pretty much holds their niche nice..and sets the pace..
At the moment yes but other software companies are adding Live's workflow ideas to their apps with each successive upgrade.
3dot... wrote:if I were to adopt the philosophy of anxiously awaiting Live9+Max6...
even though I have not even scratched the surface with the current versions
that's really counter productive imo..
I've not asked anyone to stop what they're doing. The post was intended for the Abe's developers, showing my concern for them to be on top of new technology.
3dot... wrote:in short..I think Ableton DO innovate..
Couldn't agree more, which is why I've posted this in the Ableton forum and nowhere else. I haven't seen one mention of the Knights Corner chip outside of specialist nerd sites.
3dot... wrote:(in fact L8 project shows innovation.. but not implementation skills)
I would rather have them get their shit back together for the time being...
than watch them crash and burn with my GPU..
(btw .. how many fans does it take to cool that monster up?!)
I think the Abe's ability to implement is definitely good enough, there's no point in going over Live 8's release faults again.

Not sure how many fans it takes to cool this GPU but here's an article regarding their supercomputer power consumption predictions. Notice the reduction in consumption they expect by 2030 (yeah I know that's some time away). Down from 5KW to 20W......incredible. http://www.itproportal.com/2011/06/20/k ... uter-2018/
3dot... wrote:your argument that there are people willing to pay loads of $$ for this stuff..
It's more than assumption although I don't have sales figure to back anything up but will mention two things, Korg would never have released OASYS (£5500) had they thought they'd only sell a couple of units. Similarly with the Studioblade, (£3500 basic package) it's taken a lot of research and development and they'd never have gone that far without understanding their market.
3dot... wrote: using your argument.. maybe Ableton should develop their own OS maybe ?
This is what happens when a company releases a hardware synth. It's basically a CPU dedicated to that instrument. No windows/Mac OS but their own proprietary system but no. I want to stay with the standard Windows/Mac OS way of things.
3dot... wrote:you'll end up waiting for new technologies.. (and not making music..)
and possibly be disappointed once it arrives..
Would be far more disappointing to have the hardware but not the software. At least if you have the two together you can try it.
3dot... wrote:get the best tools you can afford NOW to make music..
I'm looking into a new desktop...self build, best I can afford.
Last edited by Jarvisimon on Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:29 am, edited 3 times in total.

Jarvisimon
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Re: Something for the Ableton development team to think about.

Post by Jarvisimon » Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:33 pm

ian_halsall wrote:I have been using xeons for years with music software - just not in 64 bit mode.

The question you have to ask is what musical problem are you hoping to fix with 64++ core cpus?
I'd like to run everything at full pelt without track freezing. Reaktor can calculate its waveforms at 192khz sampling rate....currently 1 note would pretty much bring my computer to its knees using its more complex instruments.

I am having to put everything on lowest quality to write anything, the problem here is that it's impossible to hear accurately what the full quality version would sound like until you render, then you can't make changes on the fly.

Intel's Knights Core architecture works by automatically grouping just enough of its cores together to tackle a given task as well as having each core 4 part multi-threading, so it's that much faster than how CPU's presently work.

They really do seem to have made a huge leap forward in computing with this new technology, which is why I think it should be given closer attention by the software manufacturers.

ian_halsall
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Re: Something for the Ableton development team to think about.

Post by ian_halsall » Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:25 pm

Sounds like you are doing it wrong if you have a decent machine.

I haven't had performance problems for years - except on laptops of course.

Jarvisimon
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Re: Something for the Ableton development team to think about.

Post by Jarvisimon » Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:43 am

ian_halsall wrote:Sounds like you are doing it wrong if you have a decent machine.

I haven't had performance problems for years - except on laptops of course.
My current laptop is far from decent (Core2duo 1.7ghz, 1Gb RAM), I can improve it with extra memory but it only takes a maximum of 2Gb. It was bought as a cheap replacement as my previous one (with similar spec) bit the dust. But even that couldn't run everything at full pelt. I could usually get about 6-8 plug-ins and 20 effects running at minimum quality before i'd have to render tracks and that always ran into difficulties as i'd be side chaining different tracks, which makes freezing tracks more time consuming. I'd really rather not render at all if possible and have unlimited Reaktor ensembles playing at 192khz and all my sound like as you're making it.

I will be wanting a new desktop soon and am looking at self build, so will be getting the best I can afford which i'm sure will help me greatly, though I expect to max that out as I make ever more complex routings and sounds.

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