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Re: how do I make my tinny mix sound like Dark SIde of the Moon?

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:13 am
by crumhorn
I may be completely wrong but it sounds like you have tweaked each sound in isolation instead of thinking about how it sounds in the mix.

Also there seems to be too many different types of reverb going on, sounds a bit like you're playing in a big tin can.

There is too much happening at once. Listen closely to those great Pink Floyd recordings and you'll realize that most of the time there is very little happening, Just a good solid bass line, a few chords on an electric piano, or guitar, and masterfully produced percussion and vocals. And always a sense of acoustic space.

My first suggestion would be to totally rethink the use of reverb.

Re: how do I make my tinny mix sound like Dark SIde of the Moon?

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 1:07 pm
by abl385
crumhorn wrote:I may be completely wrong but it sounds like you have tweaked each sound in isolation instead of thinking about how it sounds in the mix.

Also there seems to be too many different types of reverb going on, sounds a bit like you're playing in a big tin can.

There is too much happening at once. Listen closely to those great Pink Floyd recordings and you'll realize that most of the time there is very little happening, Just a good solid bass line, a few chords on an electric piano, or guitar, and masterfully produced percussion and vocals. And always a sense of acoustic space.

My first suggestion would be to totally rethink the use of reverb.
It's because of the 'readymade' drum loop :x

As a whole the point I'm trying to make is this: if you wanna sound like the dark side of the moon, it's not the mixing nor the mastering that will get you there first, it's the ideas. And loops don't help in my opinion. By the way, Pink Floyd is Pink Floyd. And then it's us, mortals.

Re: how do I make my tinny mix sound like Dark SIde of the Moon?

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 1:16 pm
by yaddablah
abl385 wrote:
crumhorn wrote:I may be completely wrong but it sounds like you have tweaked each sound in isolation instead of thinking about how it sounds in the mix.

Also there seems to be too many different types of reverb going on, sounds a bit like you're playing in a big tin can.

There is too much happening at once. Listen closely to those great Pink Floyd recordings and you'll realize that most of the time there is very little happening, Just a good solid bass line, a few chords on an electric piano, or guitar, and masterfully produced percussion and vocals. And always a sense of acoustic space.

My first suggestion would be to totally rethink the use of reverb.
It's because of the 'readymade' drum loop :x

As a whole the point I'm trying to make is this: if you wanna sound like the dark side of the moon, it's not the mixing nor the mastering that will get you there first, it's the ideas. And loops don't help in my opinion. By the way, Pink Floyd is Pink Floyd. And then it's us, mortals.
Thanks fellows. My question was about recording and mixing.

One striking thing about Dark Side is the musical ideas are painfully simple but engineered larger than life. With the exception, of course, of Rick Wright's haunting and masterful voicings.

Re: how do I make my tinny mix sound like Dark SIde of the Moon?

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 2:04 pm
by ikeaboy
a piece of info I find usefull about DSOTM is the presence of 'the black back wall' in the mix. It's about how you eq sounds and the space you leave around them so you can see some of the inky void behind the sound objects.

Re: how do I make my tinny mix sound like Dark SIde of the Moon?

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 2:09 pm
by Anubis
There is a live device in the Audio effects category called Quadverb. Stick it in the master buss. Done!

Re: how do I make my tinny mix sound like Dark SIde of the Moon?

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 2:37 pm
by yaddablah
Anubis wrote:There is a live device in the Audio effects category called Quadverb. Stick it in the master buss. Done!
Ahh, THATS my problem I was looking for the Parsonifier!

Re: how do I make my tinny mix sound like Dark SIde of the Moon?

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 2:58 pm
by crumhorn
ikeaboy wrote:a piece of info I find usefull about DSOTM is the presence of 'the black back wall' in the mix. It's about how you eq sounds and the space you leave around them so you can see some of the inky void behind the sound objects.
With those two sentences you have put into words something which I have been struggling to express for many years.

Re: how do I make my tinny mix sound like Dark SIde of the Moon?

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 3:17 pm
by yaddablah
crumhorn wrote:
ikeaboy wrote:a piece of info I find usefull about DSOTM is the presence of 'the black back wall' in the mix. It's about how you eq sounds and the space you leave around them so you can see some of the inky void behind the sound objects.
With those two sentences you have put into words something which I have been struggling to express for many years.

Yeah, that inky void thing was pretty cool.

I read on another thread about dealing frequency collisions between objects and it was way over head. Like, "which knob on the eq do I turn?"

Re: how do I make my tinny mix sound like Dark SIde of the Moon?

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:57 pm
by ikeaboy
crumhorn wrote:
ikeaboy wrote:a piece of info I find usefull about DSOTM is the presence of 'the black back wall' in the mix. It's about how you eq sounds and the space you leave around them so you can see some of the inky void behind the sound objects.
With those two sentences you have put into words something which I have been struggling to express for many years.
Well that's pretty cool :D

Re: how do I make my tinny mix sound like Dark SIde of the Moon?

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:53 pm
by 3dot...
ikeaboy wrote:a piece of info I find usefull about DSOTM is the presence of 'the black back wall' in the mix. It's about how you eq sounds and the space you leave around them so you can see some of the inky void behind the sound objects.
I looove this sentence man..
but something I don't understand..
what makes the wall black ? or inky :D


I'll summarize what I think it takes for a masterpiece : concept.
something you wish to animate for other people. it has a story and a sound...
look at the tracks as part of a whole rather than each for itself..
orchestrate it..
think of how you'd tell a story...
concept.

then dedication.

the 'mix' part is secondary.. it's the 'means' for the story to cross over. simply another layer..

Re: how do I make my tinny mix sound like Dark SIde of the Moon?

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:07 pm
by yaddablah
3dot... wrote:

the 'mix' part is secondary.. it's the 'means' for the story to cross over. simply another layer..
Except it was the primary question of the thread, but that's neither here nor there.

Re: how do I make my tinny mix sound like Dark SIde of the Moon?

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:20 pm
by ikeaboy
3dot... wrote:
ikeaboy wrote:a piece of info I find usefull about DSOTM is the presence of 'the black back wall' in the mix. It's about how you eq sounds and the space you leave around them so you can see some of the inky void behind the sound objects.
I looove this sentence man..
but something I don't understand..
what makes the wall black ? or inky :D


I'll summarize what I think it takes for a masterpiece : concept.
something you wish to animate for other people. it has a story and a sound...
look at the tracks as part of a whole rather than each for itself..
orchestrate it..
think of how you'd tell a story...
concept.

then dedication.

the 'mix' part is secondary.. it's the 'means' for the story to cross over. simply another layer..
Oh I agree, a team of people pulling off a coherent concept album that the public takes to their heart is more likely to be the main reason for DSOTM's appeal. But I love how that album is mixed. (In my herbal opinion) The absence of sound-'blackness' is inky because it's like a tone. Something that can be seen as opposed to a complete absence of anything. I think it's down to discrete bracketing style Eq on a gorgeous desk. It's the exact opposite of what happens when you use too much distortion in a track- all the stray bees and wasps fill up the gaps in the sound so you don't get that contrast between the frequencies that carry the information and the backdrop. The 'backdrop' probably isn't even silent frequencies. I'm sure if you put the songs through even the most sensitive analysis tool there isn't any frequency holes, but it sounds like there is. The sounds are just framed beautifully like their coming at you from the abyss. It's always what I go for even though the modern tendency is towards an aggressive 'competitive' mid and top frequencies.

Re: how do I make my tinny mix sound like Dark SIde of the Moon?

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:24 pm
by 3dot...
yeah..
well your 42Mb file isn't really phone-friendly eh ? maybe a smaller format next time?
(I'll listen to it when I get back and give you some feedback ? ?)

no need to be anal..

it's a very high place you're trying to climb dude...
and a dramatic thread title too..
:mrgreen:
good luck..

Re: how do I make my tinny mix sound like Dark SIde of the Moon?

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:42 pm
by 3dot...
ikeaboy wrote:
3dot... wrote:
ikeaboy wrote:a piece of info I find usefull about DSOTM is the presence of 'the black back wall' in the mix. It's about how you eq sounds and the space you leave around them so you can see some of the inky void behind the sound objects.
I looove this sentence man..
but something I don't understand..
what makes the wall black ? or inky :D


I'll summarize what I think it takes for a masterpiece : concept.
something you wish to animate for other people. it has a story and a sound...
look at the tracks as part of a whole rather than each for itself..
orchestrate it..
think of how you'd tell a story...
concept.

then dedication.

the 'mix' part is secondary.. it's the 'means' for the story to cross over. simply another layer..
Oh I agree, a team of people pulling off a coherent concept album that the public takes to their heart is more likely to be the main reason for DSOTM's appeal. But I love how that album is mixed. (In my herbal opinion) The absence of sound-'blackness' is inky because it's like a tone. Something that can be seen as opposed to a complete absence of anything. I think it's down to discrete bracketing style Eq on a gorgeous desk. It's the exact opposite of what happens when you use too much distortion in a track- all the stray bees and wasps fill up the gaps in the sound so you don't get that contrast between the frequencies that carry the information and the backdrop. The 'backdrop' probably isn't even silent frequencies. I'm sure if you put the songs through even the most sensitive analysis tool there isn't any frequency holes, but it sounds like there is. The sounds are just framed beautifully like their coming at you from the abyss. It's always what I go for even though the modern tendency is towards an aggressive 'competitive' mid and top frequencies.
I love the visuals you're giving me man...
and I like the way you think..
(I always thought the spacey/dark quality I get from the "piece" is the feeling as if the album is breathing slowly and heavily...
there's 'air' in the inhilation part.. and lack of later..
this 'modulation' makes it all sound so organic..
there's a breathing feeling..
the melodies are ideas running in the "pieces'" head..)

ikeaboy...are you somehow involved in theater work btw?

and yep .. that's exactly what I'm saying..
if the process as a listener is 'listen ->> visualize' then the process of producing is 'visualize ->> act'..
(anything random to happen later would be a consequence of acting..
but still in the concept and 'process' of the album in mind)

http://www.mercenary.com/emitgconsole.html
...of course naturally it had to be a black console..

yabadaba.. this is for you..in the meantime
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 5345916177

Re: how do I make my tinny mix sound like Dark SIde of the Moon?

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 6:16 pm
by ikeaboy
3dot... wrote: I love the visuals you're giving me man...
and I like the way you think..
(I always thought the spacey/dark quality I get from the "piece" is the feeling as if the album is breathing slowly and heavily...
there's 'air' in the inhilation part.. and lack of later..
this 'modulation' makes it all sound so organic..
there's a breathing feeling..
the melodies are ideas running in the "pieces'" head..)

ikeaboy...are you somehow involved in theater work btw?

and yep .. that's exactly what I'm saying..
if the process as a listener is 'listen ->> visualize' then the process of producing is 'visualize ->> act'..
(anything random to happen later would be a consequence of acting..
but still in the concept and 'process' of the album in mind)

http://www.mercenary.com/emitgconsole.html
...of course naturally it had to be a black console..

yabadaba.. this is for you..in the meantime
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 5345916177
Thanks man :D . Ah nice one for the link to the desk. Doesn't it look mighty? I Love those curved faders. I could see anything on it about the EQ but I did see each channel has it's own compressor/limiter and was stereo with discrete power supply (probably very low noise floor). That video you linked too, just what I was looking for brilliant!
f the process as a listener is 'listen ->> visualize' then the process of producing is 'visualize ->> act'..
Yeah that's it isn't it? Synesthesia. I was always a very visual person when it came to music and from that sentence I reckon your the same. I understand your comparison to the rhythm of breathing. It's more satisfying to me to have that swing between empty and full, minute tensions and releases. Which is probably why I have a problem enjoying 180bpm hardtek that a lot of my friends listen to but not so with Jungle which includes weightless silences in the rhythm. I bet your a fan of Dub but that wouldn't be a major gamble :lol: plenty beautifully framed empty space there .
No theater work but I do some stuff lately with people from other areas like dance, photography and film.

To the OP Yaddablah. I reckon you have too much going in the track at the same time. Space things out in the arrangement and make each part work harder to justify itself. It they can't justify themselves then revisit them rather then adding layers. When there's less going on in the arrangement everything will sound that bit bigger and you'll have the sonic room to make the sounds a little more gorgeous. I hear the waves signature series is good for that type of track. I suggest listening to The Double Gone Chapel by Two Lone Swordsmen if you haven't heard it already