Ableton baffles me....never does what I expect

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
disastermouse
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Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:19 pm

Ableton baffles me....never does what I expect

Post by disastermouse » Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:22 pm

Hey all,

I'm trying to do something simple....I'm starting with a loop where I progressively add reverb, then I want a break, start drums, and do the same loop I was reverbing without reverb...but I can't. I even created a new version of it without reverb....in arrangement view, there is clearly a break, but the loop keeps playing reverbed no matter what I do to get it to stop. Why does it do this? Arrangement CLEARLY shows that there's a break, but it's still playing. I shut off everything in session view, and then in arrangement view, NOTHING plays. This makes no sense to me.

kanuck
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Re: Ableton baffles me....never does what I expect

Post by kanuck » Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:38 pm

I'm not entirely sure how you set up your set.

But if you have a clip playing in session view, it'll ignore any breaks in the arrangement view. You can see this as the track being greyed out. Again though not sure if that's your problem or not.

mbird21
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Re: Ableton baffles me....never does what I expect

Post by mbird21 » Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:41 pm

I would say have you got a delay fx with the reverb check the feedback for the tails etc, or check your reverb decay settings and make sure the automation is drawn in to stop the reverb point blank but you already done all of that :/ cant really think usually it means theres a long tail coming from the reverb or some other fx you have with the loop 8O

Be interesting to see what it is if someone better can tell you, sorry none of that probably helped at all :/

Best
Alex!

Tone Deft
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Re: Ableton baffles me....never does what I expect

Post by Tone Deft » Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:44 pm

top center of the GUI is the Back To Arrangement button, this sounds like a classic case of that feature tripping you up. look it up in the manual. it's a common thing for people to trip up on.

basically Live can only have one view tell it what to play, Arrange or Session. that button controls who's in control.
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kev herb
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Re: Ableton baffles me....never does what I expect

Post by kev herb » Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:51 pm

Ah the old back to arrangement chestnut. It's had us all at some point in our time ha ha. :roll: Sounds like what's going on I'd say.
Hippopotomonstrosesquipedaliophobia- Fear of long words

simpleton
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Re: Ableton baffles me....never does what I expect

Post by simpleton » Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:54 pm

That's the magic of it! :D
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disastermouse
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Re: Ableton baffles me....never does what I expect

Post by disastermouse » Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:49 am

I had the friggin' overdub button on.

Seriously though.....the volume control 'line' in arrangement view is also gone and I have no idea how to get it back. It's not an option in the 'field' where you can choose what to display. I also have no idea how to 'erase' points on the reverb 'line' control in arrangement view. I had to take every single dot and pull it down.

Live 8 is amazing in what it allows you to do, but it also makes doing some REALLY simple things much, MUCH more complicated than they need to be, IMHO. I'm sure once I understand it, it'll be okay, but it baffles me because none of it is really 'required' to make Ableton Live as powerful as it is. It reminds me of Photoshop, where it's learning curve is frequently defended by pointing to how powerful it is. Sure, it's powerful, but it's about ten times as difficult and counter-intuitive as it really needs to be to justify the power it provides.

Once again, IMHO.

kanuck
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Re: Ableton baffles me....never does what I expect

Post by kanuck » Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:04 am

have you bothered reading the manual?

for myself Live has been so simple and easy to pickup. It lets me not deal with all the technical stuff and just lets me focus on creativity and experimenting. Try reading the manual. it'll answer most of your questions.

disastermouse
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Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:19 pm

Re: Ableton baffles me....never does what I expect

Post by disastermouse » Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:39 am

kanuck wrote:have you bothered reading the manual?

for myself Live has been so simple and easy to pickup. It lets me not deal with all the technical stuff and just lets me focus on creativity and experimenting. Try reading the manual. it'll answer most of your questions.
I've got the manual, two tutorial video series, and two books. The thing is, it's hard to find exactly what I'm looking for in any of them and I just get impatient and am fiddling.

It really surprises me that there isn't a wiki for Ableton Live, that would help a lot and probably be more easily searched. Elder Scrolls and Fallout (video games) have wikis, but Ableton Live doesn't? Sorta defies reason.

Speaking of Reason, Live is STILL much easier to actually make sound than that program.

I'll just keep plugging away, I suppose...

mbird21
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Re: Ableton baffles me....never does what I expect

Post by mbird21 » Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:13 pm

If your not the kind to take in from working on written manuals i can recommened a rock solid course that will teahc you the ins and out of every aspect of using ableton live for production including a real walk through of every effect and techniques, its on a website called Groove3, you can subsribe for only a month or however long you want and access there ableton live explained dvd series which consits of other 10 hours of videos altogether and more, and i found it really great for real life examples instead of just reading, thing is everyone learns different, some might be able to take in manuals really easy and find all easy others dont and are more practical so i understand totally the difference as im the same mate 8)
Alex!

disastermouse
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Re: Ableton baffles me....never does what I expect

Post by disastermouse » Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:17 am

mbird21 wrote:If your not the kind to take in from working on written manuals i can recommened a rock solid course that will teahc you the ins and out of every aspect of using ableton live for production including a real walk through of every effect and techniques, its on a website called Groove3, you can subsribe for only a month or however long you want and access there ableton live explained dvd series which consits of other 10 hours of videos altogether and more, and i found it really great for real life examples instead of just reading, thing is everyone learns different, some might be able to take in manuals really easy and find all easy others dont and are more practical so i understand totally the difference as im the same mate 8)
I got the groove3 membership as part of the purchase. It's Live 7 and it's mind-numbing thus far. The books are better for now.

kev herb
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Re: Ableton baffles me....never does what I expect

Post by kev herb » Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:58 am

disastermouse wrote:I had the friggin' overdub button on.

Seriously though.....the volume control 'line' in arrangement view is also gone and I have no idea how to get it back. It's not an option in the 'field' where you can choose what to display. I also have no idea how to 'erase' points on the reverb 'line' control in arrangement view. I had to take every single dot and pull it down.

Live 8 is amazing in what it allows you to do, but it also makes doing some REALLY simple things much, MUCH more complicated than they need to be, IMHO. I'm sure once I understand it, it'll be okay, but it baffles me because none of it is really 'required' to make Ableton Live as powerful as it is. It reminds me of Photoshop, where it's learning curve is frequently defended by pointing to how powerful it is. Sure, it's powerful, but it's about ten times as difficult and counter-intuitive as it really needs to be to justify the power it provides.

Once again, IMHO.
for the track you want to volume automate: directly under the track name to the right of the screen there are 2 boxes with drop-down arrows. click the top one and make sure MIXER is selected then on the box under that select TRACK VOLUME now you have selected to show the track volume automation do you see it? a word of advice though: dont automate the track volume instead drag lives Utility device onto the track and automate the gain (in the 2 boxes described above select Utility in the top one and Gain in the other... or just click and move the gain knob in Utility and the automation line will appear) this means now that your overall track volume can be changed without affecting your lovingly created fades and stuff as these are done now by the gain knob and not your main mixer.
If its too late and you have automated track volume already you have locked out track volume and will have to use Utility as your overall volume. if you move the track volume slider by mistake it will override your automation and the automation line will be grayed out and not work. to sort this click BACK TO ARRANGEMENT button.

To errase or create points in your reverb line or any automation line double click on the dots. if you have many to erase highlight the area and right click one of the dots and choose DELETE ENVELOPE or just highlight the are and hit command del.

PS. Dont read the manual be a real man and throw it away and if your out somewhere and lost dont ask for directions as when you finally find where your going 3 hours later you will feel satisfied in such a manly way you will be instantly more attractive to the opposite sex and i bet you'll get laid :lol:
Hippopotomonstrosesquipedaliophobia- Fear of long words

mbird21
Posts: 315
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:36 am
Location: Sunderland - UK

Re: Ableton baffles me....never does what I expect

Post by mbird21 » Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:24 am

kev herb wrote:
disastermouse wrote:I had the friggin' overdub button on.

Seriously though.....the volume control 'line' in arrangement view is also gone and I have no idea how to get it back. It's not an option in the 'field' where you can choose what to display. I also have no idea how to 'erase' points on the reverb 'line' control in arrangement view. I had to take every single dot and pull it down.

Live 8 is amazing in what it allows you to do, but it also makes doing some REALLY simple things much, MUCH more complicated than they need to be, IMHO. I'm sure once I understand it, it'll be okay, but it baffles me because none of it is really 'required' to make Ableton Live as powerful as it is. It reminds me of Photoshop, where it's learning curve is frequently defended by pointing to how powerful it is. Sure, it's powerful, but it's about ten times as difficult and counter-intuitive as it really needs to be to justify the power it provides.

Once again, IMHO.
for the track you want to volume automate: directly under the track name to the right of the screen there are 2 boxes with drop-down arrows. click the top one and make sure MIXER is selected then on the box under that select TRACK VOLUME now you have selected to show the track volume automation do you see it? a word of advice though: dont automate the track volume instead drag lives Utility device onto the track and automate the gain (in the 2 boxes described above select Utility in the top one and Gain in the other... or just click and move the gain knob in Utility and the automation line will appear) this means now that your overall track volume can be changed without affecting your lovingly created fades and stuff as these are done now by the gain knob and not your main mixer.
If its too late and you have automated track volume already you have locked out track volume and will have to use Utility as your overall volume. if you move the track volume slider by mistake it will override your automation and the automation line will be grayed out and not work. to sort this click BACK TO ARRANGEMENT button.

To errase or create points in your reverb line or any automation line double click on the dots. if you have many to erase highlight the area and right click one of the dots and choose DELETE ENVELOPE or just highlight the are and hit command del.

PS. Dont read the manual be a real man and throw it away and if your out somewhere and lost dont ask for directions as when you finally find where your going 3 hours later you will feel satisfied in such a manly way you will be instantly more attractive to the opposite sex and i bet you'll get laid :lol:
There was me thinking you needed to just have the Lynx effect :lol:
Alex!

disastermouse
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:19 pm

Re: Ableton baffles me....never does what I expect

Post by disastermouse » Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:13 pm

Honestly though....why is a manual needed? That's the thing...

I learned Acid Pro and Fruity Loops just by playing around with them. Granted, Live is much more powerful, but so much of it is just....counter-intuitive. I think I've been spoiled by Mac software, honestly. I just expect that the UI will be consistent and make sense.

Live is like learning a new language, one with peccadilloes and exceptions that aren't immediately plain. Once again, probably worth it for the power of what it lets you do, but still baffling in the way it's designed. Still though, as I've said, miles and miles more user-friendly than Reason. That program sucked all the life right out of me. When I finally learned how to do ANYTHING with it, I was too spent to care to do anything else with it.

For instance, here's a weird problem with Live I haven't figured out...say I want to record a pad or something freeform and not a loop....well, my timing sucks and I need to try to move the notes where I want them in time....but there doesn't seem to be an easy way to do this in Arrangement View. I only seem to be able to move the WHOLE recording, not the individual notes. I can cut and move, but I have to do this with every note, and when notes overlap, then it ruins it.

The Carpet Cleaner
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Re: Ableton baffles me....never does what I expect

Post by The Carpet Cleaner » Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:05 am

The company is Ableton, and the product is called Live.

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