To Maschine Or Not To Maschine

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Syncretia
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Re: To Maschine Or Not To Maschine

Post by Syncretia » Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:48 am

people always seem to forget there is phone support, and phone calls are cheap these days even to the other side of the world.
Grrrrr......

Their phone support totally @#$#ing sucks! I don't care what anyone says. I spoke to several people about a Kontakt library installation problem. They people on the phone were rude as hell. They couldn't care less about listenting to the problem of offering solutions. I've dealt with stupider support before. I've dealt with support who are harder to get in contact with. But, I've never dealt with ruder support than NI support.

Anyway, if I believe what everyone is telling me here, I should buy Maschine. I still feel like I'm going to be messing around with 1 1/2 DAWs which is really frustrating. I'd really just like Ableton to extend Live that bit further so Maschine is not necessary. But, it looks like at the moment, from what people are telling me Maschine will be worth it.

I just hate giving my money over to those sloppy @#$#s at NI.
Download and listen @ http://www.syncretia.com

pencilrocket
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Re: To Maschine Or Not To Maschine

Post by pencilrocket » Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:54 am

Press Enter wrote:This thing sux.
Convince me it doesn't sux.

Hijinks ensue.
it is nice. why don't buy it?
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Forge.
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Re: To Maschine Or Not To Maschine

Post by Forge. » Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:12 am

Kruddler wrote:
people always seem to forget there is phone support, and phone calls are cheap these days even to the other side of the world.
Grrrrr......

Their phone support totally @#$#ing sucks! I don't care what anyone says. I spoke to several people about a Kontakt library installation problem. They people on the phone were rude as hell. They couldn't care less about listenting to the problem of offering solutions. I've dealt with stupider support before. I've dealt with support who are harder to get in contact with. But, I've never dealt with ruder support than NI support..
fair enough - I guess it just depends who you get and individual experience. The people I spoke to were fine.

Syncretia
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Re: To Maschine Or Not To Maschine

Post by Syncretia » Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:47 am

Several of the support audibly sighed as I was explaining the problem.
Download and listen @ http://www.syncretia.com

Ben_Binary
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Re: To Maschine Or Not To Maschine

Post by Ben_Binary » Sat Sep 17, 2011 1:51 pm

I have only had horrible experiences with NI support.

Finally I had one guy promise me a $50 NI voucher as an apology but they never responded to my emails asking for it...

So business is business and the warning "Buyer Beware" is still good advice.
Last edited by Ben_Binary on Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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dj_blueprint
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Re: To Maschine Or Not To Maschine

Post by dj_blueprint » Sat Sep 17, 2011 4:26 pm

I just bought Maschine last week so I can't really judge it that well. Yet.

I will say what I like:

-the hardware is pro, heavy and the pads are excellent.
-the software sounds great.
-the workflow is very reminiscent of live.

The bad, so far:
-the software installation was long and shitty, i had to re-install twice for some odd reason, and I use a MBP.
-too much overlap with what Ableton already does. It begs me to call up Ableton to create hardware that is, basically, a drum-racks equivalent that you can also use Operator and other live instruments with a display and automapping parameters with the display. It wouldn't be hard since it's basically a MPC version of a APC40 with a nice display.

I'll probably get torched by others but overall, when it boils down to it, i'm not going to sell it, im going to learn how to integrate it into my workflow.

23kon
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Re: To Maschine Or Not To Maschine

Post by 23kon » Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:33 pm

I've been really tempted with Maschine and money isnt an issue, it's do I need it? can I see an advantage?
Two small things put me off if I wanted to use it as a standalone piece of software/hardware
1) No Sidechaining
2) No timestretching
In fact, they aren't small things, they are both pretty important things in modern musicmaking.
Other than that it seems great.
granted, i'd have to rework a lot of stuff INTO maschine for playing live, but going forward I can see how easy the "workflow" is for musicmaking.

a little "lol" at whoever slated the word "workflow" created by NI's marketing team, this is true.
Your hardware/software is what you make of it. Workflow is a thing that is unique to the individual.

One of my favourite albums of all time was created on machines with extremely limited capabilities and workflow! DJ Shadow "Endtroducing" - made on an MPC60

Buy what you can afford and make-do.

YOU should be the creative force behind your music, not your computer or software.

djadonis206
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Re: To Maschine Or Not To Maschine

Post by djadonis206 » Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:59 pm

23kon wrote: Two small things put me off if I wanted to use it as a standalone piece of software/hardware
1) No Sidechaining
2) No timestretching
In fact, they aren't small things, they are both pretty important things in modern musicmaking.
Consider your options even though you want to use Maschine as a standalone

There are work arounds, especially if you have Live. You can route your kick and bass/lead/whatever to separate input channels in Live and sidechain to your hearts content.

If you don't want to do that, xfer records makes an awesome LFO with ducking plug-in that only cost $29 that you can use inside maschine. Put a compressor in front of the LFO and this sounds better than the above technique. Plus, you can shape the sidechain.

Time-stretching is a non issue. Maschine chops samples and they play back, with no artifacts, in tempo.

Or, you can sample into Maschine from Live so everything is in sync. When you sample into Maschine, you can set it up to sync to the bar and you get perfectly cropped loops in the tempo you're working it. If you want to change the tempo in the song, chop the loop and keep rolling.
23kon wrote: YOU should be the creative force behind your music, not your computer or software.
Last edited by djadonis206 on Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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humnumb
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Re: To Maschine Or Not To Maschine

Post by humnumb » Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:03 pm

23kon wrote:1) No Sidechaining
http://www.native-instruments.com/forum ... p?t=129358
23kon wrote:2) No timestretching
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfImZkYm_BA

23kon
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Re: To Maschine Or Not To Maschine

Post by 23kon » Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:56 pm

Cheers for the links. Not owning maschine i was just going by a youtube video i watched about some guy moaning that maschine 1.7 shouldve included these features that maschine didnt have in this update.

To get timestretching doesn't that need Kontact5? 379 euro?!
and for sidechaining I have to have reaktor - another 379 euros?!

humnumb
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Re: To Maschine Or Not To Maschine

Post by humnumb » Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:22 pm

23kon wrote:Cheers for the links. Not owning maschine i was just going by a youtube video i watched about some guy moaning that maschine 1.7 shouldve included these features that maschine didnt have in this update.
Yeah, complaining about what his expectations were as opposed to what NI has been telling us for weeks is well...idiotic.
23kon wrote:To get timestretching doesn't that need Kontact5? 379 euro?!
and for sidechaining I have to have reaktor - another 379 euros?!
Nope. You can use any plugin that does timestretch and sidechain, including free ones:
http://www.kvraudio.com/get/1315.html
http://airy.andre.online.fr/AU/#speedster
http://bedroomproducersblog.com/2010/11 ... t-plugins/

Maschine and LFOTool: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXOBvWz2i6M


pencilrocket
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Re: To Maschine Or Not To Maschine

Post by pencilrocket » Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:41 am

23kon wrote:Cheers for the links. Not owning maschine i was just going by a youtube video i watched about some guy moaning that maschine 1.7 shouldve included these features that maschine didnt have in this update.

To get timestretching doesn't that need Kontact5? 379 euro?!
and for sidechaining I have to have reaktor - another 379 euros?!
Yes. If you need current comercial level time-stretch (included in most Daws) you have to buy that product you mentioned, furthermore it is inside the sampler. Or you can do it in the daw free of charge :lol: (if you possessed a package of daw.)
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lethal_pizzle
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Re: To Maschine Or Not To Maschine

Post by lethal_pizzle » Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:11 am

You can use the free Kontakt player to timestretch inside Maschine, then resample. Kontakt player gives you 30 minutes before it times out as this is a demo feature.

ShelLuser
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Re: To Maschine Or Not To Maschine

Post by ShelLuser » Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:24 am

Its been mentioned before but whatever you do you really should make sure that you can return the product. Personally I'd focus more on the recently introduced Mikro Maschine than the regular one.

The main problem with the maschine controller is robustness, better put; sometimes lack of it. I've had 3 maschine controllers from 2 different vendors and had to return every one of them due to hardware failures. Ranging from unresponsive to jittery dials right to usb strangeness.

The workflow is awesome. No question about it; the whole setup that you can build and control your drumrack right from the controller is simply brilliant. I can do the same with my mpd24, sure, but its a lot more work to move back and forth (maybe its me but creating a percussion sound is totally different then using one on your drumpad, so IMO its only finished after you tried it).

Anyway; the Mikro version seems a lot more sturdy than the full model so I'm still toying with the idea to go to a music store sometimes to check it out for myself.
With kind regards,

Peter

Using the 'Power' Trio: Live 10 Suite (+ Push & Max 8 ), Reason 10 and Maschine Mk3 (+ the ultimate Komplete 12).
Blog: SynthFan (under heavy construction!)

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