Ableton Forum

Hi,

I've been playing with time signature changes over single, previously-warped audio clips to see if I can hear any changes in meter/metre. To my ears there's no difference with fiddling around neither in the clips Time Signature nor in the global Time Signature, assuming the BPM stays the same. That's true even if you're now measuring the beat in 8th notes, for example, rather than quarters (crochet).

You will, however, hear differences in accompanying appegiating isometric patterns, for example, as would synchronized effects. And I do wonder if grove patterns would playback a bit differently.

What I would really like to know is, in your opinion as a rhythmic variation or effect, what use of changing time signatures would actually have an interesting impact on live playback?

Cheers

Bump. Again, the Tips and Tricks forum would have been kinder to this question, but I don't like to flood that forum with questions; to me it should be about tricks.

hey dude...
the general use for changing 'signature' is not to change the actual 'speed'...
but the way you count it..

changing it shouldn't make audible difference.. provided the bpm stays the same..
(except on the metronome)
only graphical.. (grid alignment...bar/beat-count.. )

bpm always applies to 1/4 notes...
so the sig won't change the bpm..
but it'll change where musical bars start/end..

hope this helps..

3dot, thanks plenty for getting back to me.

Interesting that bpm stays in 1/4 notes in every case. If you don't mind me asking, what benefit do you gain from meddling with time signatures in Clyphx; what do you like to do with them?

In a performance setting, as you pointed out, I get little utility from changing time signatures, other than causing some synchronized midi effects from behaving a bit differently. My style is conventional 2 decks with everything else optional as it comes to me. I do some arpeggiation, maybe quick midi embellishments or a kick, that's about it.
I even tried putting two copies of the same song up against each other, one in 4/4 and the other in anything else, 5/4 6/8 9/8, their playback stayed the same. Maybe what I want to do is two songs in separate time sig. to see how they x-fade, or record loops which then play back isometrically...

If we are talking audio clips, I do not see how altering the time signature of Live is going to matter... the audio is still the same. What would change is how other events are quantized (if this is enabled) to this audio. Hope that makes sense.

again.. the time signature doesn't change anything "externally"...
it only changes the 'grid'.. (the 'count' "internally")

think of it this way.. you got a box.. you can break that box internally and count it by mm..cm..inches.. whatever..
the box size(the bpm) stays the same..

ehm ..if you compose a piece that has shifting rhythms..
it starts out with a 6/8 swing.. and then gradually ..goes into a speedy 4/4..
when laying down the 'lead' for this piece.. you want the 'metronome' to shift with the rhythm changes..
and also for the bars to stay aligned..
in which case..
changing the sig along the song.. you will save yourself a lot of grief.. changing count..aligning the bars etc..

as for changing it through clyphx.. I was just enthusiastic that you could..
it could be great for improvising..(with other people..say a drummer receiving the 'click'...)
changing the metronome and recorded clips signature on the fly etc..
of course this can all be done with the regular clips..as is..
but clyphx is much more immediate/straight-forward.. and allows you to change it at the 'clip' level..
as for using it in a dj set..
I don't really see any use for that..

and ehm...what do you mean by 'isometric'..exactly ?

Thanks again for chiming in.
So you'll find that I use sequencing along with my tracks only optionally, and in most cases, as you point out, divisions of the beat will not change the playback. However, it will change the retriggering of an arpeggiator, for example, although I've been too busy to work out the math to use a time sig change in an intended or predictable way. Happy mistakes are always welcome, nonetheless, I'd rather change the retrigger of beats directly on the arpeggiator and know what to expect. By iscometric, I mean any pattern embedded, or superimposed if its a polyrhythm, to the written time signature. I like synth lines that don't add up perfectly nor land a pattern on the existing bar. That's what I'm playing with changing it with clyphx, but the results are not always welcome in the way other tricks have been lucky.