I think ableton is working on something big

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
sweetjesus
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Re: I think ableton is working on something big

Post by sweetjesus » Thu Feb 24, 2005 9:48 pm

Timmy Diamond wrote:
sweetjesus wrote:i just have a tingling feeling that this is the case. the last time there was such absence from ableton folks on here was when they were all too busy workin on live 4 just before release.
It occured to me shortly after I first heard about Live that the same principle could be applied to visuals ie. you scan through your footage adding warp markers and the software slows or speeds the interveneing footage to make it fit. End result is people movin' really slow then a sudden burst of action totally in-time with your music. Any takers??
In the film/video world this is called time warping. If you are stretching the vision to be longer, instead of just duplicating frames, the newly created frame(s) end up being a morph sequence between the previous and next frames.

Then you have other things which you can do with film, like shoot something at 200 frames per second as opposed to the usual 24 then slow the footage down. Or the other way around, shooting at 24fps, and getting the actors to do their thing really slowly, then speeding the footage up (nicely done if you speed the footage up at certain keypoints). The latter technique is applied to many hip-hop/r'nb video clips you see on MTV.

As for the former video technique, bruce lee was so fast with his moves that they had to shoot him at a high frame rate and slow it down just to capture the moves which were too fast to see at 24 frames per second.

bonsak
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Re: I think ableton is working on something big

Post by bonsak » Fri Feb 25, 2005 12:10 am

sweetjesus wrote:
Timmy Diamond wrote:
sweetjesus wrote:i just have a tingling feeling that this is the case. the last time there was such absence from ableton folks on here was when they were all too busy workin on live 4 just before release.
It occured to me shortly after I first heard about Live that the same principle could be applied to visuals ie. you scan through your footage adding warp markers and the software slows or speeds the interveneing footage to make it fit. End result is people movin' really slow then a sudden burst of action totally in-time with your music. Any takers??
In the film/video world this is called time warping. If you are stretching the vision to be longer, instead of just duplicating frames, the newly created frame(s) end up being a morph sequence between the previous and next frames.

Then you have other things which you can do with film, like shoot something at 200 frames per second as opposed to the usual 24 then slow the footage down. Or the other way around, shooting at 24fps, and getting the actors to do their thing really slowly, then speeding the footage up (nicely done if you speed the footage up at certain keypoints). The latter technique is applied to many hip-hop/r'nb video clips you see on MTV.

As for the former video technique, bruce lee was so fast with his moves that they had to shoot him at a high frame rate and slow it down just to capture the moves which were too fast to see at 24 frames per second.
Slowing down video is extremly cpu intensive. If you use something like
reVision twixor or realviz retimer youre looking at very long rendering times.
10 min rendering for 10 seconds of video(PAL) on a g5 is not unusual at best quality if your slowing something down by say 300%.
And even then you sometimes get serious artifacts in the pictures.
So i dont think this is something you would want to consider for live
work even though the idea is very intruging :-)

Regards
Bonsak
15" 1.25gHz PB 1GB ram, OS 10.3.9, Indigi i/o
Live 5, Reason 3.0, Spongefork 3,
Reaktor 5, Filterscape, m 2.6, Pluggo.

sweetjesus
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Re: I think ableton is working on something big

Post by sweetjesus » Fri Feb 25, 2005 6:51 am

bonsak wrote:
sweetjesus wrote:
Timmy Diamond wrote: It occured to me shortly after I first heard about Live that the same principle could be applied to visuals ie. you scan through your footage adding warp markers and the software slows or speeds the interveneing footage to make it fit. End result is people movin' really slow then a sudden burst of action totally in-time with your music. Any takers??
In the film/video world this is called time warping. If you are stretching the vision to be longer, instead of just duplicating frames, the newly created frame(s) end up being a morph sequence between the previous and next frames.

Then you have other things which you can do with film, like shoot something at 200 frames per second as opposed to the usual 24 then slow the footage down. Or the other way around, shooting at 24fps, and getting the actors to do their thing really slowly, then speeding the footage up (nicely done if you speed the footage up at certain keypoints). The latter technique is applied to many hip-hop/r'nb video clips you see on MTV.

As for the former video technique, bruce lee was so fast with his moves that they had to shoot him at a high frame rate and slow it down just to capture the moves which were too fast to see at 24 frames per second.
Slowing down video is extremly cpu intensive. If you use something like
reVision twixor or realviz retimer youre looking at very long rendering times.
10 min rendering for 10 seconds of video(PAL) on a g5 is not unusual at best quality if your slowing something down by say 300%.
And even then you sometimes get serious artifacts in the pictures.
So i dont think this is something you would want to consider for live
work even though the idea is very intruging :-)

Regards
Bonsak
That's true. But all that said, sometimes I had to perform these tasks on an SGI the size of a fridge. The performans was pretty nice on that ;-)

Emissary
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Post by Emissary » Fri Feb 25, 2005 10:36 am

Nice to know there is someone else out there who likes fire walk with me. :D

conny
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Post by conny » Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:20 am

Personally I would be disappointed if the heads of Ableton stretched their necks in the video direction. OK if it was a special edition of the software but if resources would lack in the sound/music app delelopement, that would be bad. IMHO (have learned that one now...). If it was a lot of secure income in that direction - well, nobody knows.

// C
PC Laptop Acer, XP Home SP2, build in crappy sound card.
Bleeps and Blops!
http://bluemoose.greatnow.com/

sweetjesus
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Post by sweetjesus » Sat Feb 26, 2005 6:15 am

Emissary wrote:Nice to know there is someone else out there who likes fire walk with me. :D
hahaha
i'm hoping you're referring to combustion/flint/flame/inferno :P otherwise I'm calling the nutcase cops on u.

adhmzaiusz
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Post by adhmzaiusz » Sat Feb 26, 2005 6:36 am

it would suck grandpa wrinkle dink if they incorporated video into live. I really really hope that that isn't what they are doing. think of how slow your computers will become, processing audio and effects and video. Trust me once you get video you are going to want realtime video effects, and then a bunch of other video features that won't be completed, just like how midi in live 4 is lacking. They really need to improve on what they have already started before they release a bunch of sketchy unplanned concepts

parma
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Post by parma » Sat Feb 26, 2005 6:54 am

Emissary wrote:Nice to know there is someone else out there who likes fire walk with me. :D
Let's Rock

Damn fine coffee...and hot!

conny
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Post by conny » Sat Feb 26, 2005 11:48 am

Bad looping but you may remeber:

http://bluemoose.greatnow.com/Div/coffee.mp3

// C
PC Laptop Acer, XP Home SP2, build in crappy sound card.
Bleeps and Blops!
http://bluemoose.greatnow.com/

sweetjesus
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Post by sweetjesus » Sat Feb 26, 2005 12:20 pm

from memory the guitar is samples on the first track on a dj kicks compilation i have somewhere...

conny
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Post by conny » Sat Feb 26, 2005 3:23 pm

As a backward speaker, sweetjesus, this would be a site for you then:

http://www.glastonberrygrove.net/media/speech.html

Major Briggs' speech (reversed dialogue) and more

// C
PC Laptop Acer, XP Home SP2, build in crappy sound card.
Bleeps and Blops!
http://bluemoose.greatnow.com/

simon
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Post by simon » Sat Feb 26, 2005 7:03 pm

Weird Al Yankovic - "Bob" (video & tune parodying Bob Dylan)

I, man, am regal, a German am I
Never odd or even if I had a hi-fi
Madam, I'm Adam, too hot to hoot
No lemons, no melon, too bad I hid a boot
Lisa Bonet ate no basil, Warsaw was raw
Was it a car or a cat I saw?

Rise to vote, sir, do geese see god?
"Do nine men interpret?", "Nine men," I nod
Rats live on no evil star, Won't lovers revolt now?"
Race fast safe car
Pa's a sap, Ma is as selfless as I am
May a moody baby doom a yam

Ah, Satan sees Natasha, no devil lived on
Lonely Tylenol not a banana baton
No "x" in Nixon, O, stone, be not so
O Geronimo, no minor ego
"Naomi," I moan, "A Toyota's a Toyota"
A dog, a panic in a pagoda

Oh, no! Don Ho!, Nurse, I spy gypsies-run!
Senile felines, now see bees I won
UFO tofu, we panic in a pew
Oozy rat in a sanitary zoo
God! A red nugget!, A fat egg under a dog!
Go hang a salami, I'm a lasagna hog!



You guys seen this video?? Hilarious!!!
the ultimate pallindrome song...

12micsn1
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Post by 12micsn1 » Sun Feb 27, 2005 6:19 pm

This more likely a long term development down the road but this also a opportunity for Ableton to add more products to there line up hopefully not LIVE.

forge
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Post by forge » Mon Feb 28, 2005 5:24 am

LOFA wrote:Hey, as long as we are off topic, if anyone knows where I could find a sample of the famous "I barried Paul," reversed beatle sample, I would be so greatful!
John actually said that was bollox and it said something like 'cranberry sauce' probably somewhere on the white album if not sgt pepper

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