How to get really good at Music/Art

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Machinesworking
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Re: How to get really good at Music/Art

Post by Machinesworking » Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:23 pm

This whole discussion spiraled completely out of control. 10,000 hours of practice won't instantly make you Mozart, but unless you're not practicing out of a passion for your instrument and simply out of some desire to be a "musician", please mom and dad etc. it should make you decently competent on that instrument.

Seriously, Mozart is at times extremely boring, there IMO seems to be a "look what I can do!" element to his stuff. Music is and always has been a personal experience, the guitar playing bards that were around in Mozarts day aren't recognized, but the legacy of simpler easily digestible music without much of an element of flashy technical skill is very much alive today. Most of the people on a board for a very arguable stripped down performance oriented DAW with built in quantizing in it's Clip firing aren't and shouldn't be worried about becoming Mozart.

I guess the two things maybe possibly this thread has brought up that are on topic would be practice until you can play an instrument decently and have reasonable goals.


I would add that most amazing players out there are more concerned with getting better than being thought of as a great player. Total devotion to improving their skills seems to be common. So practice again is not something to throw out because people are comparing themselves to the technically most challenging contenders in the sport amphitheater death match of skill players. So what I've gotten out of it personally is I need to practice more. It's easy with great equipment to get right into writing every day and not learn something new about music in general.

simmerdown
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Re: How to get really good at Music/Art

Post by simmerdown » Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:25 pm

hey that looks like a....

Image

lol...nice chart shit i have a lot of work to do

...and btw, no one, including gladwell ever said '10k hours will make you Mozart', or a genius, that has been taken out of context and blown out of proportion along wit the downhill spiral of this thread...

it was a few years ago, but if i recall gladwell says 10k hours to mastery of anything, not genius

and like machines said...he does get tedious as hell sometimes, not everything he did was genius

acidpenguin
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Re: How to get really good at Music/Art

Post by acidpenguin » Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:46 am

Machinesworking wrote:Seriously, Mozart is at times extremely boring, there IMO seems to be a "look what I can do!" element to his stuff.
Too many notes? :wink:
I would add that most amazing players out there are more concerned with getting better than being thought of as a great player. Total devotion to improving their skills seems to be common. So practice again is not something to throw out because people are comparing themselves to the technically most challenging contenders in the sport amphitheater death match of skill players. So what I've gotten out of it personally is I need to practice more. It's easy with great equipment to get right into writing every day and not learn something new about music in general.
What's also important is to practice well, stating the obvious but sometimes it's easy to forget. Practice needs to be focused and ideally challenging. One has to do the things that are hard to improve, learning new scales or songs, trying new techniques, whatever. I think it's a mistake people easily make that just 'cos they've spent X hours in front of a computer making tunes that counts as practice when very often if you examine how you spent the time very little of it would count towards that kind of improvement.

Personally breaking it down into small chunks often helps, half an hour seriously getting my head round a new concept or learning a new song and then walking away from it to let my brain recover works a lot better for me than bashing away at something for hours. Found that was also the way I got over writer's block at one point.

Evengy
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Re: How to get really good at Music/Art

Post by Evengy » Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:34 am

simmerdown wrote:hey that looks like a....

Image

lol...nice chart shit i have a lot of work to do

...and btw, no one, including gladwell ever said '10k hours will make you Mozart', or a genius, that has been taken out of context and blown out of proportion along wit the downhill spiral of this thread...

it was a few years ago, but if i recall gladwell says 10k hours to mastery of anything, not genius

and like machines said...he does get tedious as hell sometimes, not everything he did was genius
yes, 10k hours to master but it´s not a guarantee to earn a lot of money or to be the superstar. but do you guys wanna be famous or a master of his instrument? i think the instrument is easier than reaching your goal without mastering anything :D

i´m

crumhorn
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Re: How to get really good at Music/Art

Post by crumhorn » Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:06 am

I think it was Johnny Cash (another genius) who said "all the money is in the first five frets".
"The banjo is the perfect instrument for the antisocial."

(Allow me to plug my guitar scale visualiser thingy - www.fretlearner.com)

regretfullySaid
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Re: How to get really good at Music/Art

Post by regretfullySaid » Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:39 pm

ImageImage

rpc9943
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Re: How to get really good at Music/Art

Post by rpc9943 » Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:01 pm

If your passion is based on spirit and exploration, then you're already there. If it's to get attention, please call it quits.
http://theconsolationproject.bandcamp.com
Influenced by The Cure, Smiths, early Verve, My Bloody Valentine, Radiohead, Red House Painters, Cocteau Twins, The Church.

Tone Deft
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Re: How to get really good at Music/Art

Post by Tone Deft » Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:56 pm

crumhorn wrote:I think it was Johnny Cash (another genius) who said "all the money is in the first five frets".
give that man a capo!!!


"obsession is a great substitute for talent"
-Steve Martin

a great essay on how he learned to play banjo (many hours of practice):
http://redknotstudio.com/compleatsteve/essays/banjo.htm
"Obsession is a great substitute for talent." - Steve Martin on learning the banjo

Dell Inspiron 15 7000, Live 10.1, Win10 Home, Edirol UA101, APC40, Remote SL, SPD-SX, mic, guitars, JX305, Nova
soundcloud.com/tone-deft

simmerdown
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Re: How to get really good at Music/Art

Post by simmerdown » Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:13 pm

crumhorn wrote:I think it was Johnny Cash (another genius) who said "all the money is in the first five frets".
thats awesome..not after money, but i know today i'll practice 1-5 and open strings..

'good thing i keep my feathers numbered for just such an occasion!'...LMao

c33
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Re: How to get really good at Music/Art

Post by c33 » Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:31 pm

rpc9943 wrote:If your passion is based on spirit and exploration, then you're already there. If it's to get attention, please call it quits.
haha. I suppose if you're truly passionate about getting massive amounts of attention from others there's a chance you'll get it if you're ambitious and driven enough to go the distance and make it happen.

But true passions usually have more purpose behind them. Most people aren't passionate about getting attention - it's just a desire. And what do desires often do best? Distract.

We want to share and connect and be validated by others so much that in the process we lose sight of why we're doing what we're doing and what we really need.

regretfullySaid
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Re: How to get really good at Music/Art

Post by regretfullySaid » Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:57 pm

To the point now that people with no talent are rewarded, the center of attention and instant celebrities :? DISTRACTION
ImageImage

Davo
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Re: How to get really good at Music/Art

Post by Davo » Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:55 pm

I find that I get better at things by having them constantly on my mind and also by practicing. For example, I paint pictures. I will only paint a picture if I "see" something in my mind and keep imagining it untill I get obsessed enough to actually paint it. Another example is that I have recently started learning the 5-string banjo. I keep hearing the tunes in my head until I can't help but pick up the banjo and play it. Both of these examples show me that I will only keep doing these things if I absolutely love having them on my mind, but it is possible to train my mind to focus on the things I love. These types of creative activities do require you to have the ability to imagine the object that you are creating, and that is the 'talent' I think, but talent can be developed by training your mind and by repeatedly trying to actualize your imagination through practice. Talent (as I define it above) and practice both seem important. My answer to the original question is "by training your imagination and practicing your technique".

Machinesworking
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Re: How to get really good at Music/Art

Post by Machinesworking » Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:36 pm

crumhorn wrote:I think it was Johnny Cash (another genius) who said "all the money is in the first five frets".
I was going to mention him in a different context, in relation to the need people create around being the most versatile player etc.
He was already famous but still had serious doubts about his abilities as a vocalist. He went to get lessons, the vocal coach after hearing his records, recognizing Cash's vocal chord limitations, and hearing that he had a unique voice, pretty much told him to get out! Sure his voice is horribly limited in terms of an instrument, but so is a French Horn, or a bass, or any instrument really. In his case flavor over the Jack of all trades approach. He's not and never could be Freddy Mercury or Pavarotti, but imagine either of them trying to sing Walk the Line. :lol:

regretfullySaid
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Re: How to get really good at Music/Art

Post by regretfullySaid » Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:44 pm

I can imagine Cash doing a kick ass rendition of Fat Bottom Girls, though 8)
ImageImage

simmerdown
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Re: How to get really good at Music/Art

Post by simmerdown » Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:48 pm

yeh, open minded dude he did that NIN song when he was already 137 yrs old

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