How to get really good at Music/Art

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
c33
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Re: How to get really good at Music/Art

Post by c33 » Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:53 pm

Fantastic article!
savyurrecords wrote:
dokx wrote:
Practice without talent won't ever lead to greatness. Sad but true.

Imagine yourself loving to play let's say football, you play the whole day, you practise etc, but without the needed talent to kick a ball you will never make it to the Premier League.

I have never known someone good at something that didn't work hard at it. Though talent is needed to be great, I have known plenty of talented people that didn't do shit with their lives because they didn't do any work.
Both of these are valid points.
There is no talent, only practice.
Some people may have a greater aptitude for learning certain things, or the belief they do (which often is the same) having a great teacher also helps whatever you are doing.

But, in the end its about putting hours in....
I disagree. Hard work can cultivate and strengthen talent, but to imply that talent isn't ever a critical ingredient to creative success.. that it's only about "putting the hours in".. is a stretch, imo.

We don't ever do anything alone. You work hard, even when it seems like the well has run dry, waiting for those precious moments of inspiration to strike. It's a kind of magic you can only take partial credit for.. because it's beyond you.. greater than you. Good art can capture and trap something that just might live forever.

dokx
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Re: How to get really good at Music/Art

Post by dokx » Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:29 am

tw1nstates wrote:There is no talent, only practice.
Some people may have a greater aptitude for learning certain things, or the belief they do (which often is the same) having a great teacher also helps whatever you are doing.

But, in the end its about putting hours in....
Two people could do exactly the same, with the same teacher, same stuff, same amount etc - and they will never reach the exact same level.

Because people are no machines, they are just different. You can call it talent or whatever you like ("aptitude for learning"), it's still a fact.

Why there's eg only black athlets in the Olympic 100 metres finals? Do they work harder than others? (Or do they do more doping?) ;)

jimmynitcher
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Re: How to get really good at Music/Art

Post by jimmynitcher » Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:58 am

Work in itself is not the answer.Sometimes knowing WHAT to concentrate hours of work on is the main problem to be solved,'efficient' practice is an art, one can work needlessly for hours, in fact it can be used as means of avoidance - modern artists have to wear many hats, if you practice all day and do no promotion then you may be great but still get nowhere. (In terms of career).

oddstep
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Re: How to get really good at Music/Art

Post by oddstep » Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:05 am

financial success is nothing to do with creating great art. its related to surviving. talent is only relevant if you are comparing technical skills. if technique is disregarded then with time and confidence anyone should be able to make art that said something significant about the world. not every one would like it of course - but art is that subjective. I don't like hard rock guitar solos - technically they are often excellent - but in general they don't resonate with me. A lot of art is a bit unrealised, plagiaristic and trite - but that's what happens when people just bang stuff out to satisfy a market.
EDIT: just for the record - technique does matter but its not everything for me.... so the running analogy doesn't completely describe how I understand the process behind making art.

cold_fashioned
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Re: How to get really good at Music/Art

Post by cold_fashioned » Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:54 pm

This was an awesome post! I'm just dipping my toes in the waters of Live, and it is certainly overwhelming at first. One can see the power that Live has, and it's all I can do to temper my expectations and remind myself to crawl, then walk, then run. I'm also not worried about sucking, and I'm not trying to make a living off of music production. (yet, hehe)

I especially liked the fact that this artist you refer to has a background in Physics - about as far from sculpting as you can get. He found an approach (process) that works for him and I think that's important.

Cheers!

jimmynitcher
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Re: How to get really good at Music/Art

Post by jimmynitcher » Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:18 am

The OP referred to financial success.

Something else - try and be aware of when you make excuses, we all do it. If you can't do something, it's because YOU haven't tried hard enough - nothing to do with needing Live 9 to come out or whatever.

Evengy
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Re: How to get really good at Music/Art

Post by Evengy » Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:42 am

Two people could do exactly the same, with the same teacher, same stuff, same amount etc - and they will never reach the exact same level.
yes, thats true but not because of talent. if you are a normal human its because of the different approaches to learn stuff and youre thinking/experience. everyone can make great records. maybe there is some luck but most time is or should be practice. if something doesn´t work try another way.

3dot...
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Re: How to get really good at Music/Art

Post by 3dot... » Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:24 pm

all you need is the TRUTH..
(+3 chords..)

"At times the truth shines so brilliantly that we perceive it as clear as day.
Our nature and habit then draw a veil over our perception, and we return to a darkness almost as dense as before.
We are like those who, though beholding frequent flashes of lightning, still find themselves in the thickest darkness of the night.
On some the lightning flashes in rapid succession,
and they seem to be in continuous light, and their night is as clear as the day. "
- Maimonides. Guide for the Perplexed.Introduction
Image

amigo
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Re: How to get really good at Music/Art

Post by amigo » Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:58 am

Great post.

Theo Void
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Re: How to get really good at Music/Art

Post by Theo Void » Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:46 pm

I have motivational problems.

simmerdown
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Re: How to get really good at Music/Art

Post by simmerdown » Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:13 pm

in an interview with YoYo Ma the interviewer said, 'its amazing what your talent has led you to achieve!'...YOyo: Yes! that, and the 100,000 hours of PRACTICE

comparing sports and music is not an valid comparison

read Outliers (malcolm gladwell) if this topic interests you...in a nutshell, anyone can master anything with about 10,000 hours practice...'talent' is a myth

gjm
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Re: How to get really good at Music/Art

Post by gjm » Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:01 pm

Evengy wrote:
Two people could do exactly the same, with the same teacher, same stuff, same amount etc - and they will never reach the exact same level.
yes, thats true but not because of talent. if you are a normal human its because of the different approaches to learn stuff and youre thinking/experience. everyone can make great records. maybe there is some luck but most time is or should be practice. if something doesn´t work try another way.
I am a music teacher. I see a wide range of people age and stage wise. Currently I only use the word 'talent' as a summary of the total skills package that one student has over his/her peers in relation to the time it has taken to achieve what they have to date.

One thing that is very obvious to me is that people come to me 'wired' in different ways. Some people just simply have advantages over others because of their make up. You can definitely work on areas of your individual makeup that are underdeveloped through years of repetition and you will see results as either maintenance or limited growth. However, everybody has limits built into them by default, and no matter what you do, you will never get past them.
iMac - 10.10.3 - Live 9 Suite - APC40 - Axiom 61 - TX81z - Firestudio Mobile - Focal Alpha 80's - Godin Session - Home made foot controller

gjm
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Re: How to get really good at Music/Art

Post by gjm » Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:13 pm

innerstatejt wrote:If your goal is to be great at something...
IMO This one sentiment alone is the single greatest piece of misguided thinking anybody can have. There is much more to be said about greatness finding you than planning for your greatness.

G.
iMac - 10.10.3 - Live 9 Suite - APC40 - Axiom 61 - TX81z - Firestudio Mobile - Focal Alpha 80's - Godin Session - Home made foot controller

Machinesworking
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Re: How to get really good at Music/Art

Post by Machinesworking » Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:19 pm

If you're comparing great athletes to great artists, you're doing it wrong. If ever there were two worlds that had almost nothing in common but could both be called entertainment it would be sports and art.
The only real comparison that can be made in my opinion is that both require practice. Talent on the other hand, completely different. In sports there's a genetic component, IMO almost anybody if they start young enough can become a professional athlete if they train correctly constantly, but genetics will determine if you make it as a Star or a well paid bench warmer.
With art you can and do change your opinion about what is good or bad art throughout your life. You develop a set of tools that you work with and if it's something a lot of other people are resonating with at that time then you might get famous. Some guy coming out with a bluegrass band because he likes it isn't hindered by his talent, but his choice of an obscure set of rules to work with that are not currently popular.

gjm
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Re: How to get really good at Music/Art

Post by gjm » Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:15 pm

Machinesworking wrote:The only real comparison that can be made in my opinion is that both require practice. Talent on the other hand, completely different. In sports there's a genetic component, IMO almost anybody if they start young enough can become a professional athlete if they train correctly constantly, but genetics will determine if you make it as a Star or a well paid bench warmer.
Would you not say that the same is true of learning to play an instrument?
iMac - 10.10.3 - Live 9 Suite - APC40 - Axiom 61 - TX81z - Firestudio Mobile - Focal Alpha 80's - Godin Session - Home made foot controller

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