APC + Petrov vs Maschine

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Post Reply
jimmynitcher
Posts: 396
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2004 6:30 pm
Location: UK

APC + Petrov vs Maschine

Post by jimmynitcher » Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:21 am

I really want to know what you can do with a Maschine you CAN'T do with the APC/Petrov script, might also help others decide and discover...
For instance I can preview samples (loaded them all into Racks and mapped on/off switches in Device Control section to dials)and record automation (template set contains bounce channels so i just do filter sweep or whatever in record) , it also makes me LISTEN to my production instead of LOOK.

I suppose I'm appealing to anybody who has both-maybe not many?

cheers

taoyoyo
Posts: 283
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:17 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA
Contact:

Re: APC + Petrov vs Maschine

Post by taoyoyo » Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:13 pm

Not sure if this quite what you're asking for but Maschine has proper drum pads that you can play expressively... the APC has buttons that are not velocity sensitive. That's quite a big difference.

If you're talking controller type comparisons alone they work quite well together... I use the Mackie Control template for Maschine. One of the main advantages over the APC being that the track names show up on the hardware screens. On the otherhand, a 4x4 grid for triggering Live Clips just isn't enough, which is one area where the APC has the edge.
http://taoyoyo.com

Late 2011 15" Macbook Pro | 10.8.4 | RME Babyface


JuanSOLO
Posts: 3236
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:21 am
Location: Shreveport LA, sometimes Dallas/Ft Worth TX

Re: APC + Petrov vs Maschine

Post by JuanSOLO » Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:16 am

These 2 things are really different, and both have limitations galore.

Some differences

APC40 + Hanz's Script,
Multiple modes based on midi notes with the exception of the step sequencer. This allows you to use the "note modes" as CC's too, but to get full LED support you need the help of Bomes or M4L.
You get the Step Sequencer, which is cool, but 5 rows tall and scrolling up and down without distinguishable feed back is difficult.
The APC40 comes with the device knobs, a very spectacular feature.
The Track Control Knobs have 4 modes, but not completely reliable. With a bit of M4L you can customize them to work a bit better.
There is no browsing with Hanz's Script, thats more of a Native Kontrol APC40 thing.
You can map the matrix to DrumRack pads and use note mode, but as stated there is NO velocity. However, you could use some loose fader or knob map it to a velocity effect that sits on a midi track receiving the APC40 and routed to the DrumRack, then use the knob to dial in velocity.
Think of the Hanz Script as allowing you to have multiple pages to MAP either CC's or Midi Notes, plus a step sequencer. THATS IT. However you get all the default functionality of the APC40 as well.

Maschine has great pads, lots of buttons and enough knobs all configured in a way that you can do most of the top level adjustments to beat/loop creations, and some what deep level navigation, browsing, and loading, ALL FROM THE HARDWARE, with no need to even look at your screen. BUT, that is only when your using the Maschine software. When it comes to using it as a controller, you will either be locked into someone elses midi remote scripting, OR learn Bomes, or M4L, OR python scripting, to customize it to your liking.
There are some Maschine scripts for Ableton, but I haven't got a chance to really dig in. If your savvy enough you could write a midi remote script for Maschine, making it a killer DrumRack controller with a lot of cool features you just could not do with an APC40. However you could do that with an MPC controller too.
Maschine has superior step sequencing, and drum playing on the fly editing such as delete notes. But when it comes to step sequencing 4x4 pads is not much. However step sequencing on the APC40 with Hanz script moves pretty fast too.


Comparing the 2 is kinda silly, they are VERY DIFFERENT. The only thing they have in common is headaches of trying to get them to do something simple they dont do that you wish they did.

Mark Egloff's M4L sequencer, has a GREAT layout on the matrix. To me it makes WAY more since, but no velocity :cry:

You might want to look into the Native Kontrol stuff for the APC40. It offers a lot, which can be good as well as confusing and locked into that particular layout.

djadonis206
Posts: 6488
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 4:23 pm
Location: Seattle, WA.

Re: APC + Petrov vs Maschine

Post by djadonis206 » Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:30 am

Other than money there's no reason you can't have both. I have an APC20 and Maschine. I'm loving it
Last edited by djadonis206 on Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ableton | Elektron

Music

skatr2
Posts: 450
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:38 pm

Re: APC + Petrov vs Maschine

Post by skatr2 » Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:01 am

Juan pretty much nailed it.

If you are the type that prefers velocity sensitive drum pads and don't have a problem using two different software contingents incorporated together, then maschine is a good option. The pads and the hardware/software integration are very uniform and easy to put things together. It does give basic ableton function as well, though its no more integration than any other controller would have by default. Also I have yet to see anyone really tear into the remote scripts for maschine to make it more ableton friendly...so in the long run this may not be a great option for all.

If you only want to use ableton and want step sequence capability, then the apc40 with Hanz's scripts are a great bet....though you don't get the velocity sensitivity. To some this is a dealbreaker. But when you can adjust velocity of your step patterns on Hanz's script straight off the pads, its a good alternative. Also you could probably get an MPD series with an APC for the same or under the cost of maschine. But again, you don't have default control over ableton like what maschine has over its software.

JuanSOLO
Posts: 3236
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:21 am
Location: Shreveport LA, sometimes Dallas/Ft Worth TX

Re: APC + Petrov vs Maschine

Post by JuanSOLO » Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:32 am

the Native Kontrol scripts do somethings no one yet offers, particularly loading stuff from the browser.

I had my Maschine on ebay but the guy who won the auction failed to pay, I may or may not relist it, because the possibilities of working on a remote script for it to control drumRacks and all kinds of shit.

skatr2
Posts: 450
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:38 pm

Re: APC + Petrov vs Maschine

Post by skatr2 » Fri Oct 14, 2011 3:00 am

While I like the stuff nativekontrol does for the APC...I find changing back and forth from remotescripts cumbersome and kinda useless. Another option is to use the Hanz script with APC 40...get an mpd32 and use the nativekontrol MPD setup. This way you get the best of both worlds and really good functionality within ableton. Its more desk space...but sometimes having everything in one small unit becomes a bigger hassle than its worth.

Klinikal
Posts: 210
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:38 pm
Location: Planet Earth

Re: APC + Petrov vs Maschine

Post by Klinikal » Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:31 am

APC40 - build for live, remote scripts, maxforlive step seq etc. and got Ableton logo on it.
Maschine - pads, browsing, vst's, automation recording to pattern/clip, no need to look at screen etc.


What nobody is mentioning about Maschine is high-resolution knobs.


With APC40 and Live - Load some VSTi in live, map it to APC and tweak the knobs - You here stepping - because only 127 knob positions are possible.
Maschine - load Your VSTi from the controler and tweak parameters - no stepping.

jimmynitcher
Posts: 396
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2004 6:30 pm
Location: UK

Re: APC + Petrov vs Maschine

Post by jimmynitcher » Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:14 am

Thanks people really useful thoughts :)

taoyoyo
Posts: 283
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:17 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA
Contact:

Re: APC + Petrov vs Maschine

Post by taoyoyo » Fri Oct 14, 2011 3:35 pm

Klinikal wrote: What nobody is mentioning about Maschine is high-resolution knobs.

With APC40 and Live - Load some VSTi in live, map it to APC and tweak the knobs - You here stepping - because only 127 knob positions are possible.
Maschine - load Your VSTi from the controler and tweak parameters - no stepping.
... Maschine's knobs are surely only high-resolution when used internally with Maschine?

If we're talking about using a midi template (such as the Ableton or Mackie control one) to control anything externally aren't we then back to the standard 0-127 midi step contraints?
http://taoyoyo.com

Late 2011 15" Macbook Pro | 10.8.4 | RME Babyface

skatr2
Posts: 450
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:38 pm

Re: APC + Petrov vs Maschine

Post by skatr2 » Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:18 am

Another thought on this topic as I just started trying the user note modes hans created...simply phenomenal. While you dont get the benefit of pad sensitivity...you get almost a full piano roll on an apc 40 and the note highlight makes it even better than the apc20 inherent note mode.

baseinstinct
Posts: 658
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 3:45 am

Re: APC + Petrov vs Maschine

Post by baseinstinct » Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:48 pm

What do you mean by this note highlight, something missing on apc20?

skatr2
Posts: 450
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:38 pm

Re: APC + Petrov vs Maschine

Post by skatr2 » Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:16 pm

Hanz had a note mode that works similarly to the apc20. But he goes one step further. He adds a separate mode that lights up what would be white keys on a piano and leaves the sharp/flat keys dark. Really helps playing some melodies.

willdahbe
Posts: 499
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 8:35 am

Re: APC + Petrov vs Maschine

Post by willdahbe » Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:25 am

I have an apc40 and use to have maschine. Thought I didn't like maschine that much at the time, like it was to easy to use or something stupid. Well, I really want Maschine back now. They both work wonders together! I suggest both if you have the flow. Sorry for no real answer.

Post Reply