Why does my music doesn't sounds as loud as other music?

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
InfinityUnit
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:42 am

Why does my music doesn't sounds as loud as other music?

Post by InfinityUnit » Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:24 am

Hi,

OK this is a newbie question :roll:

I've just made a song in live with a fairly decent mixing of all my instruments. Everything sounds great but one thing.

After I've made an export of the song, I import the song in a media player, my song will play substantially less loud that the other music in my library. Although, when I was mixing it in live, I put the master volume as loud as I could without peak...

What is the issue here, I know this is a mastering issue, but how can I get my music to sound as loud as the "other" music? Compression? What plug in? and so on... I'm not to hot on "normalizing" my song because I feel it destroys the carefully planned mix I've made. It outputs a rather bland product...

Thanks for helping me

P.

Syncretia
Posts: 328
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:34 pm
Location: Melbourne
Contact:

Re: Why does my music doesn't sounds as loud as other music?

Post by Syncretia » Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:49 am

I notice this as well. I always turn the master up as high as it will go without going in to the red. But, after I export, my music is still a lot software than other people's music. The thing that I also find is that the master channel can go well in to the red before I hear even the slightest degree of clipping. Not really sure.

But, a couple of ideas.

- Try the Normalize function. This will only work well if your track does not have large variations in volume because it will treat all volumes as relative to the loudest volume in the track (I believe).

- Use a program like Audacity after you have exported to either increase the volume, or at least pinpoint where the peaks in the track are occuring by looking at the wave. You might be able to make normalisation work better in the point above.
Download and listen @ http://www.syncretia.com

antarktika
Posts: 1006
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:54 am

Re: Why does my music doesn't sounds as loud as other music?

Post by antarktika » Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:01 am

a careful mix of compression and limiting, pro mastering, or Izotope's Ozone 4 are the answers you are looking for. You could start out by boosting your mix a little into the red, then limiting it until it is no longer peaking, and see if you're comfortable with the sacrifice of dynamic range.


InfinityUnit
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:42 am

Re: Why does my music doesn't sounds as loud as other music?

Post by InfinityUnit » Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:18 am

Thanks everyone for your inputs...

COOL That's a very nice article, well written and very concise.

Now If you can just tell me what is the compressor/limiter I should use. I have live Intro.

Been looking for Compressor II but I found nothing... I will keep searching in my plug-in folder but If someone can suggest a compressor/limiter that is free or already included in Live, I'd appreciate.

Thanks

P.

InfinityUnit
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:42 am

Re: Why does my music doesn't sounds as loud as other music?

Post by InfinityUnit » Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:25 am

Found the precise plug in, in the compressor folder of the plug in folder in live... I'm experimenting with it as I write this... So far much better results... Will keep looking

:D

P.


Syncretia
Posts: 328
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:34 pm
Location: Melbourne
Contact:

Re: Why does my music doesn't sounds as loud as other music?

Post by Syncretia » Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:16 am

Compression and limiting is only a bandaid solution.

If there are parts of your track which have wild volume swings, then you are better off figuring out why that is happening rather than throwing a blanket over the whole thing and reducing the dynamics of your music.

Compresion and limiting have their place, but are not silver bullets.
Download and listen @ http://www.syncretia.com

InfinityUnit
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:42 am

Re: Why does my music doesn't sounds as loud as other music?

Post by InfinityUnit » Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:19 am

Thanks Antarktika for the link.

however the guy in the tutorial uses a different version of Live. I have access to only half of what he's using... I have live intro

But good principles though...

Best to do is trial and error...

I'm a little concern. Using Compressor in Live I was able to "boost"the sound level almost as high as that professional music which I bought on cd. Not quite there though... But the thing is that I was on the cusp of making my system explode and I still couldn't put the level to a "professional" level...

Could it be the type of equipment used? software or hardware... The quality of the plugin or the experience of the guy doing the job? :mrgreen:

P.

Syncretia
Posts: 328
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:34 pm
Location: Melbourne
Contact:

Re: Why does my music doesn't sounds as loud as other music?

Post by Syncretia » Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:26 am

Infinity, this is a long topic...

You are experiencing the job of mastering. It's something that takes a long time to ahem.. "Master"

My advise is to try using normalisation which will make your song as loud as possible without clipping. Then, find the peaks in your song with some tool like Audacity. Then figure out why it is peaking at those points. You should then reduce the wild volume swings and export again with normalisation. This will allow you to maximise volume, and correct wild swings without resorting to compression or limiting.
Download and listen @ http://www.syncretia.com

antarktika
Posts: 1006
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:54 am

Re: Why does my music doesn't sounds as loud as other music?

Post by antarktika » Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:06 am

InfinityUnit wrote:I'm not to hot on "normalizing" my song because I feel it destroys the carefully planned mix I've made. It outputs a rather bland product...
Kruddler wrote: My advise is to try using normalisation... and export again with normalisation.
so he should do what he's trying to avoid doing twice as much, to get the following results?:
Kruddler wrote:I notice this as well. I always turn the master up as high as it will go without going in to the red. But, after I export, my music is still a lot softer than other people's music.
There's nothing wrong with using limiters and compressors, so long as you don't overdo it. It is fairly common in pro mastering to use gentle compression followed by a limiter as a stage of the mastering process.

Syncretia
Posts: 328
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:34 pm
Location: Melbourne
Contact:

Re: Why does my music doesn't sounds as loud as other music?

Post by Syncretia » Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:54 am

There's nothing wrong with using limiters and compressors, so long as you don't overdo it
Sure it's usually a good idea not to heavily compress thing
Let me explain this more clearly. The first step of making a song sound good is mixing. Mastering comes afterwards. Forget about the mastering for now and concentrate on the mixing. The second step of mixing (after choosing good sounds), is getting volumes right across the tracks, but also along the entire song. If there is one instrument which is peaking its balls off, or some automation that spikes the volume at some point in the song, that is the thing to correct. Compression or limiting might fix this, but at the expense of the dynamics of the song. No good producers would blindy apply compression to the master track and squeeze the shit out of the whole song. That's just nuts.

Some explanation of compression is probably necessary. This is from wikipedia:
Dynamic range compression, also called DRC (often seen in DVD and car CD player settings) or simply compression reduces the volume of loud sounds or amplifies quiet sounds by narrowing or "compressing" an audio signal's dynamic range
In other words, compression reduces wild spikes in volume. Compression is great when say for example you have a sample where the player struck some notes too heavily, and other notes too lightly. But, it should be pointed out that you wouldn't apply compression to the entire song, you would only apply compression to that track to reduce harsh volume differences.

If in fact there are wild volume differences between tracks, or between parts of songs, this is the first thing to address. The first thing you need to do is find where this is happening, and reduce the volume spikes with the plain old volume fader. Compression can then be added later to smooth things out further but not to magically make a mix sound professional.

Compression is obviously used a lot in electronic music for various effects, but don't make this confusing. First and foremost, get the volume right across the tracks, and across the song.
so he should do what he's trying to avoid doing twice as much, to get the following results?:
No. The point of exporting it the first time is to figure out where the volume spikes are. If the volume is consistent across the song, the normaliser will do a better job of pumping out a WAV file and you won't have to guess which level the Master volume should be at to get the loudest sound without clipping.

Sorry I should have addressed this:
I'm not to hot on "normalizing" my song because I feel it destroys the carefully planned mix I've made. It outputs a rather bland product...
That's not quite right. I'm sorry I can't comment on Ableton's normaliser but different DAWs do normalisation in different ways. Some DAWs use compression in exactly the same way mentioned here: it merely reduces the dynamic range of the song and you end up with the bland product you are talking about (compression). However, the better kind of normalisation simply multiplies the volumes of the track in relation to the loudest peak in the song. If there is a massive peak somewhere in the song, the song will end up being very quiet. Sorry I can't comment on which method Ableton uses. You'd have to read up or experiment. Normalisation is not necessarily bad if you are just starting out - just make sure your mix is mooth before you bounce.
Download and listen @ http://www.syncretia.com

Rave
Posts: 6152
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:26 am

Re: Why does my music doesn't sounds as loud as other music?

Post by Rave » Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:13 am

Post the track up. I will have a listen and advise. :)

flowdesigner
Posts: 930
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 5:58 am

Re: Why does my music doesn't sounds as loud as other music?

Post by flowdesigner » Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:47 am

InfinityUnit wrote:Hi,
my song will play substantially less loud that the other music in my library.

P.
good !

It should not be loud

flowdesigner
Posts: 930
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 5:58 am

Re: Why does my music doesn't sounds as loud as other music?

Post by flowdesigner » Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:48 am

antarktika wrote: Izotope's Ozone 4 are the answers you are looking for
no,

crank up the volume on your amplifier when you are listening to the song.

enjoy

Post Reply