Best Rockband/Guitar Hero Drum Kit for playing MIDI???

[Gmix]

I have been researching different options for building/scrapping together some kind of e-drums to add to my MIDI arsenal, but it looks like the cheapest trigger module is a $150 unit by alesis, and I'd have to add to that building triggers out of practice pads, and buying hi-hat and kick pedals. So, in order to save some cash and the hassle of building my own kit from scratch, I have decided to look into using a Rock Band or Guitar Hero drum set which are running in the 50-120 range for low-mid end models. Has anyone here used any of these controllers with Ableton, Max or other DAWs to generate/send MIDI? Here are the factors that are important to me, roughly in order from highest to lowest priority:

Feel - I hate the hard plastic feel of some electronic drum pads, like the early roland triggers. I'd prefer something softer, less noisy, with decent rebound. I like the look of the Logitech version, and of course the Ion's would be nice but they are a bit too expensive.

Latency - I need something with virtually no latency. 2 ms tops

Expandability - I would like to be able to swap out my own custom trigger pads/cymbals/ hi-hat pedals, so it would be nice if I found a kit that has a brain with standard 1/4 in connections that would accept input from additional triggers.

Wireless - Would be nice if the brain comunicated with my Mac wirelessly via bluetooth or a USB dongle. I think the logitech kit comes with a dongle, and I know that there is one specifically for connecting xbox controllers via USB (that I assume would work with any xbox wireless drum set). If going wireless means sacrificing latency, I don't mind using a cord. Afterall, I will not be carrying the kit around to different locations on stage during a performance so it's not absolutely necessary, but nice to not have to deal with the extra cables.

Portability - Most of the kits are pretty compact compared to a normal kit, but some fold up quite easily like the logitech one.

As you can see, I'm leaning towards the Logitech kit, but it would be great to hear someone who owns one of these kits or has experience with routing MIDI from them on a Mac before I make the plunge. Thanks a lot,

G

[savyurrecords]

Hmm, I think you are shooting for the stars there. You will need to compromise somewhere.
With anything that is designed to be a toy the major issues you will have is 1 latency, 2 lack of velocity sensitivity.

[Gmix]

I know that I'm not going to get Roland quality performance out of these "toys," but I've seen some pretty decent youtubes of people playing around with their Rockband kits in Garageband. I recently made a wireless MIDI translator patch for the Wii Rockband Keyboard, and the latency is surprisingly not a problem at all. Can't imagine that wired drums could be too bad, even wireless should be pretty decent. Just looking for advice from anyone who might have experience either just playing these kits with the game, or with regards to how they handle MIDI (wirelessly or wired). Thanks,
G

[Warrior Bob]

I've connected one of the old Rock Band sets as a MIDI controller, and to be honest I didn't find much use for it. It's neat to play around with though, but I found the sound of the rubber to be more distracting than anything else. I actually got more use out of the d-pad and face buttons. I was using one of the original ones which didn't have any velocity sensitivity on it; I understand that the newer ones have a basic velocity sensor but they don't seem to be overly sensitive.

I have played with the Guitar Hero set in the game, but haven't ever made it send MIDI. Its pads were a lot nicer IMHO than the Rock Band kit (a bit quieter, far better rebound), but the cymbals were silly and didn't feel terribly responsive. The kick pedal never stayed put either. It'd make a half-decent MIDI controller if you only want three real pads. It is wireless and I believe you can use the Xbox 360 dongle to connect it to a computer. Latency exists but shouldn't be terrible. It's not selling very well so you might be able to find one cheap.

I don't think you're going to find anything expandable and solidly built that meets your specifications though, at least not in the realm of toy instruments. They're great fun, but it sounds like you're looking for a way to get around the cost of serious drum MIDI controllers, and I don't think you're going to do that without giving up quite a bit.

That said - if they work out for you, they work out for you

[Gmix]

Thanks for your input, Bob. I've heard that alot about the earlier Rock Band controllers, and I can tell just by the look of the pads that the Guitar Hero controller is cushier and not that terrible hard plastic surface. So far, I've only seen the wireless Xbox USB dongle working with PCs, but I guess there's no reason it wouldn't work on Mac as well. Still leaning towards the Logitech kit, though I can't find any examples of anyone using it for MIDI (though I see there is a MIDI port on the back, not sure if it's In or Out). I wish that I could afford a roland TD kit, but for now I'll have to see what I can milk out of these video game controllers. It would be great if more people could see this as a cheaper alternative, and maybe that would lead to some more competitive pricing for the real-deal Roland or Alesis kits. I'm a dreamer, I know... haha.
-G

[Chris TT]

A couple of weeks ago I bought the "Rock Hero Warriors Of Rock" box for PS3 that included the drum kit - 3 pads, 2 cymbals, 1 kick pedal. All are velocity sensitive and has the 5 pin midi output.

It's fun for bashing around on - I've used it with Battery and Addictive Drums. Pads do register different velocities but it's more along the lines of hard or soft!
I get shouted at by the wife when I'm using it with headphones as hitting the pads still makes a lot of noise.

Kick pedal has an anchor on the frame on this version that keeps it in place as well.

It cost £60 (seems everywhere is selling them off in the UK for that price) and as it came with the game, guitar and usb mic as well it's worth the money.

Only downside is it uses a wifi dongle to link to the PS3 and still seems to need this for the controller to work with my computer (no problem, just plug the dongle in to a spare usb port, but does mean it needs a spare port).

Not noticed any latency myself but I'm not a proper drummer and just bought it to bash some beats out on for fun.

[Gmix]

Chris, are you using the MIDI out port to play Battery, or does it work wirelessly? Also are you on a Mac or PC? Are the trigger inputs 1/4 in TS? Thanks for the advice.

[Chris TT]

I use the 5 pin midi output on the built in controller with a standard midi cable - other end plugs into Emu 1820 that's connected to a PC running Windows XP. Midi input selected in the live routing.

3 main pads are wired internally to the controller, the others (kick and cymbals) have the small earphone jack style plugs with a couple of spare sockets for extra pedals.

I haven't tried it as a wireless controller - it did cross my mind but it was so simple and quick to plug in via midi cable I didn't bother looking into it.

The only problem with it is it's so much fun that as soon as I try using it my kids want a go and there goes my chance to record anything (but that's my excuse for never recording anything anyway!).


Last winter I picked up 2 sets of xbox360 Rock Band "portable" drum pads for £15 each which I stuck to some board to give an 8 pad, 2 kick kit (connected via usb and using joystick-to-keyboard converter) - was fun but wasn't velocity sensitive and was very noisy - pads on this new Rock Hero drum kit are so much better (nicer to hit, quieter, don't feel like you're going to shatter your wrists with long playing!).

Hope this helps - can't say I'm any kind of expert as my best beats are programmed but as I can't justify spending cash on a proper midi kit this does me fine and is fun and responsive.

[Gmix]

Cool, thanks for the info. Good to know that there is at least a possibility to add additional triggers or pedals to that kit. +1 for expandability. I would be interested to see if it transmits MIDI wirelessly or only through the 5-pin port. When I made my wireless MIDI translation patch in Max/MSP for the Rockband Keyboard, the input was a binary code that I had to translate to MIDI note on/off messages. I'd guess the kit uses something similar to communicate with the console. Thanks again for the advice, still leaning towards the Logitech kit for portability, but not sure about the quality of the kick pedal or whether or not it allows for custom made kick triggers or units like the roland kd-7 or kd-8. Again I'm not expecting pro performance, but as long as there is some hint of velocity sensitivity and the latency is minimal, any toy will be good enough for me.

Anyone else care to weigh in?

[Warrior Bob]

Just posting to say that I love toy instruments, especially when they send MIDI

[kingzquest]

I'd like to set up my rock band drums to trigger Drums in ableton. How does one set it up so that ableton recognizes the drums as a controller? Any setup help greatly appreciated!

[slatepipe]

Just posting to say that I love toy instruments, especially when they send MIDI

Likewise