Live 9 info just announced at AES!

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
icedsushi
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Re: Live 9 info just announced at AES!

Post by icedsushi » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:15 pm

friend_kami wrote:
Earwax69 wrote:What Presonus have that Live dont in arrangement view? Im just curious... I really love Live drag and drop style, samples at the left, settings at the right and bottom. Is Presonus just another Cubase??
http://www.youtube.com/user/presonusaudio
So what is the difference between this "Melodyne integration" and just dragging an instance of Melodyne editor onto a track in Live? The waveform still opens up in the Melodyne plugin window when you use it with Live. I couldn't see anything in that video how Melodyne would behave any different in Studio One than it an instance of it would in Live.
Last edited by icedsushi on Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

pencilrocket
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Re: Live 9 info just announced at AES!

Post by pencilrocket » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:15 pm

nebulae wrote:It's true!!! Tarekith does not lie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why he had to restarting software while performing? Hanging up?
Image

Khazul
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Re: Live 9 info just announced at AES!

Post by Khazul » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:35 pm

icedsushi wrote:
friend_kami wrote:
Earwax69 wrote:What Presonus have that Live dont in arrangement view? Im just curious... I really love Live drag and drop style, samples at the left, settings at the right and bottom. Is Presonus just another Cubase??
http://www.youtube.com/user/presonusaudio
So what is the difference between this "Melodyne integration" and just dragging an instance of Melodyne editor onto a track in Live? The waveform still opens up in the Melodyne plugin window when you use it with Live. I couldn't see anything in that video how Melodyne would behave any different in Studio One than it an instance of it would in Live.
OK in Live you currently have two basics ways to use melodyne:

1. Set it up as your audio editing app and than you can offline edit a clip in melodyne by clicking edit on an audio clip. The problem here is the sample is taken offline line so you have to finish editing before you can hear the edits in context. In this case - melodyne will make a permenant change to the underlying audio file when you save over it, but you can save as instead then load the modified clip by hunting for it in Live's browser (this is what I normally do).

2. Use melodyne as a plugin - in this case yoiu fist have to capture the audio into melodyne, then you can edit in in the context of the rest of the project which is generally much better. The annoyign bit here is you first have to capture the audio into melodyne before you do this. Additionally, when happy with you edits you may end up bouncing the audio again and removing the plugin. In live this is relatively easy.

With their intergration, then it basically combines these approaches - the simplicity of 1 above, but with the edit in context advantange of 2 (without needing to capture first) and the ease of rendering from 1.

Now this all sounds great, but TBH - I actually prefer to never change the original audio file. I dont know if the integration provides an option when rendering to create a new audio file that replaces the original in the project, but still leaves trhe original intact on disk. I dont know how it integrates with DAW undo etc for example, so even with a more integrated way of using it - without knowing the answers to these questions, Im not sure how much many users could actually benefit from such integration unless it addresses those concerns of mine - if it does, then it sounds like a good improvement to workflow for audio editing applications.

Of course, all this assumes that you are using melodyne directly on unprocessed audio (ie no plugins between the raw audio and melodyne). With Live there may be other considerationa - like you might have warped the audio that gets captured by melodyne, whereas the edit button lauches melodyne with the raw unwarped audio, so with integration support in live - which is the right default thing to do (considering that melodyne is also a good tool for timing correction in recorded material).
Nothing to see here - move along!

icedsushi
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Re: Live 9 info just announced at AES!

Post by icedsushi » Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:01 pm

Ah I get it now.

Well the Melodyne integration sounds nice and all, but not a big enough reason to switch from one DAW to another. And of course like you said, it all depends how it's actually implemented, like are you able to keep the original audio files as part of the integration or the originals are changed automatically when you save, etc. Using Melodyne as a plugin with Live, having to capture the audio first is a minor inconvenience but not a deal breaker having to do that.

Warping, putting effects or plugins before the Melodyne plugin is a good point. Wondering how this would be implemented with Studio One's integration approach.

ilya.soloviev
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Re: Live 9 info just announced at AES!

Post by ilya.soloviev » Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:05 pm

If you want Live 9 to be out soon stop send crash reports! :lol:

Tarekith
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Re: Live 9 info just announced at AES!

Post by Tarekith » Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:21 pm

pencilrocket wrote:
nebulae wrote:It's true!!! Tarekith does not lie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why he had to restarting software while performing? Hanging up?
My browser crashed while I was playing that show and I couldn't get online to check the Ableton Forums. Had to restart so i could keep track of all the Live 9 rumors.

MacGuffin
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Re: Live 9 info just announced at AES!

Post by MacGuffin » Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:13 am

nebulae wrote:It's true!!! Tarekith does not lie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Image
wow that pictures looks so authentic, I am now convinced and will be hugely disappointed if it turns out Live 9 wasn't announced at AES. :mrgreen:

nuxnamon
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Re: Live 9 info just announced at AES!

Post by nuxnamon » Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:58 am

MacGuffin wrote:
nebulae wrote:It's true!!! Tarekith does not lie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Image
wow that pictures looks so authentic, I am now convinced and will be hugely disappointed if it turns out Live 9 wasn't announced at AES. :mrgreen:
Was it "males get in free if you mention Tarekith at the door" night? 8)

Tarekith
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Re: Live 9 info just announced at AES!

Post by Tarekith » Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:02 am

Sigh.... Neb you're going to get it one of these days, just wait....


:lol:

RajahP
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Re: Live 9 info just announced at AES!

Post by RajahP » Wed Oct 26, 2011 3:33 am

nuxnamon wrote:
MacGuffin wrote:
nebulae wrote:It's true!!! Tarekith does not lie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Image
wow that pictures looks so authentic, I am now convinced and will be hugely disappointed if it turns out Live 9 wasn't announced at AES. :mrgreen:
Was it "males get in free if you mention Tarekith at the door" night? 8)

Must of been somewhere in Manchester..

Tarekith
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Re: Live 9 info just announced at AES!

Post by Tarekith » Wed Oct 26, 2011 3:34 am

Why, because it starts with "Man"?

friend_kami
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Re: Live 9 info just announced at AES!

Post by friend_kami » Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:21 am

icedsushi wrote: Well the Melodyne integration sounds nice and all, but not a big enough reason to switch from one DAW to another.

you're right, it's not.
luckily that's not the only feature that is convincing.

infact, i doubt i will be using melodyne integration much at all. it's all fun and games fiddling with that shit, but i prefer to get it right the first time instead, and focus on other, more important, tasks.

icedsushi
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Re: Live 9 info just announced at AES!

Post by icedsushi » Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:34 pm

friend_kami wrote:luckily that's not the only feature that is convincing.
Cool, I'd like to hear about those other things that make it convincing to switch. Not sure I'm still current about knowing what else is out there as far as features. I only used Logic & Reason a few versions back, so that's all I've tried recently as far as DAW's go, been switched over to using only Live ever since.

What about being able to rearrange devices on the fly without stopping the music, drum racks, MFL integration, wide variety of midi controller support, warping, flexible modular signal routing & the session view. Studio One has things similar to these? Or if not, do you miss them at all or perhaps don't need a few of those things?

friend_kami
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Re: Live 9 info just announced at AES!

Post by friend_kami » Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:55 pm

icedsushi wrote:
friend_kami wrote:luckily that's not the only feature that is convincing.
Cool, I'd like to hear about those other things that make it convincing to switch. Not sure I'm still current about knowing what else is out there as far as features. I only used Logic & Reason a few versions back, so that's all I've tried recently as far as DAW's go, been switched over to using only Live ever since.

What about being able to rearrange devices on the fly without stopping the music, drum racks, MFL integration, wide variety of midi controller support, warping, flexible modular signal routing & the session view. Studio One has things similar to these? Or if not, do you miss them at all or perhaps don't need a few of those things?
i rewire live to s1. live is great for sound design, but it's shit for arrangement and actual editing.
if you disagree then i guess you don't do much editing in live, nor have the need to precise automation, comping and proper track groups and an arrangment view that let's you see what you need to see and hide the rest that you don't need. i don't like the idea of scrolling up and down for 5 minutes just to find a track when i can with s1 just hide all groups except the group that i am currently supposed to edit and just have those tracks viewed.

Khazul
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Re: Live 9 info just announced at AES!

Post by Khazul » Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:44 pm

icedsushi wrote:
friend_kami wrote:luckily that's not the only feature that is convincing.
Cool, I'd like to hear about those other things that make it convincing to switch. Not sure I'm still current about knowing what else is out there as far as features. I only used Logic & Reason a few versions back, so that's all I've tried recently as far as DAW's go, been switched over to using only Live ever since.

What about being able to rearrange devices on the fly without stopping the music, drum racks, MFL integration, wide variety of midi controller support, warping, flexible modular signal routing & the session view. Studio One has things similar to these? Or if not, do you miss them at all or perhaps don't need a few of those things?
There are loads of things I much prefer in logic or cubase that I really wish were as good (or even available at all) in live, but in the end for 90% of what I do - live gives me really great quick workflow compared to the alternatives and without feeling an non-stop craving for really expensive large format console type control surfaces, and most importantly it has a creative workflow that the alternative cant even hope to come close to in their current incarnations as most of what I do is creative work (even for clients) rather than straight up mix work (which even then usually turns into a chop and do creative stuff job and so better in live to start with despite non-existant support for multi-pass recording and comping).

Sure occasionally I get pissed of enough with certain releases of live that I might actually migrate a project out of live and into logic or even sometimes cubase but in all that - I dont think Ive ever really seriously considfering switching once the moments of utter frustration and thoughts of getting on a plane to berlin out for blood etc have passed.

The reason is actually quite simple - when live fucks up it usually does so like a annoying obstinate mule that completely screws up your workflow for a couple of hours. But nearly always pales into insignificant next to the day in day out endless clickeness and menu pounding for obscurely accessed common features that I have found with cubase and logic unless you happen to be using either with a really good and unfortunately very expensive control surface with 1000s of knobs on it.

OTOH - I have to be honest, if I had 25K to spend on a huge console like control surface for logic (ive been tempted by euphonix, but it doesnt quite cut it), then I doubt live would by much more than a sketch pad for me. Kind of like PT - with anything less than 100K to spend on your console, audio interface etc - dont touch with a barge pole.
Nothing to see here - move along!

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