Why is mapping a controller in Live so convoluted?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
chapelier fou
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Re: Why is mapping a controller in Live so convoluted?

Post by chapelier fou » Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:14 am

gusc wrote: I would beg for official API release and all the controller sources to be opened, so I could modify my Launchpad and SL MkII control surface scripts.
Thanks for saying this loud and clear.
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pencilrocket
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Re: Why is mapping a controller in Live so convoluted?

Post by pencilrocket » Sat Nov 05, 2011 4:37 am

Interesting thread.

hoffman2k
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Re: Why is mapping a controller in Live so convoluted?

Post by hoffman2k » Sat Nov 05, 2011 5:44 am

Hint wrote:
djadonis206 wrote:What's so difficult about pressing configure, using the key strokes control + M, jiggle the thing you want to control, and then assign it to a button, knob, or fader.

I'm really confused right now
OK... try and map a button on a controller to "Undo" and get back to me. :idea:
Undo = A#5

http://web.archive.org/web/200308110250 ... /MCMap.htm

All these modern controllers are all just a mix of Automap and Mackie Control.

pucklermuskau
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Re: Why is mapping a controller in Live so convoluted?

Post by pucklermuskau » Mon Nov 07, 2011 6:01 pm

for mapping undo, mackie control mode emulation is the easiest way to implement that, imo...
i drop on the lokeymassive

deeflash
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Re: Why is mapping a controller in Live so convoluted?

Post by deeflash » Mon Nov 07, 2011 6:42 pm

gusc wrote:I would beg for official API release and all the controller sources to be opened, so I could modify my Launchpad and SL MkII control surface scripts.
I've got some custom SL MKII scripts you can play with. :D

http://www.deeflash.com/custom-ableton- ... tescripts/

Forge.
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Re: Why is mapping a controller in Live so convoluted?

Post by Forge. » Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:38 am

tried nativeKontrol stuff? Some pretty damn cool things can be done there

my launchpad has an undo button! ;-)

Piplodocus
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Re: Why is mapping a controller in Live so convoluted?

Post by Piplodocus » Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:52 pm

pucklermuskau wrote:for mapping undo, mackie control mode emulation is the easiest way to implement that, imo...
I prefer using my pre-mapped Cmd-Z combo before I do any more damage! :wink:

Interesting thread though. I started reading because I thought it was incredibly easy. Not for all functions though...

The Carpet Cleaner
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Re: Why is mapping a controller in Live so convoluted?

Post by The Carpet Cleaner » Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:32 pm

Live mapping midi controler is the best.

JuanSOLO
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Re: Why is mapping a controller in Live so convoluted?

Post by JuanSOLO » Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:19 am

Piplodocus wrote:I started reading because I thought it was incredibly easy. Not for all functions though...

Then you missed the point, because you obviously didn't read that much.

And to many of the previous responses by others, there is a lot more I'd like to map than undo, that was but a small example. And being locked in to someone else's idea i.e. Native Kontrol, is only a submissive workaround, not really a solution for in depth custom mappings.

For example, in about 4 hours I can make and intensely deep multimodal and über functional, completely custom mapping including LED feedback, to my apc40, using traktor. This would take me weeks in M4L and Live, and it's not for my lack of knowledge in M4L with an APC40.

oddstep
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Re: Why is mapping a controller in Live so convoluted?

Post by oddstep » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:53 am

User configuration of Live is currently a massive missed opportunity. In L6 there was the user config scripts, then people noticed that the python scripts could be hacked in 7 and then in 8 max for live was released giving some sort of semi official access to Live. The communication between Live and controllers has never been properly documented, everything has been achieved through hacks, guesswork and fragments of decompiled code. This is still true with M4L, a paid for product. Considering how important the human machine interface is to live performance its unfortunate that Ableton have put up so many hurdles to self expression.

rbmonosylabik
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Re: Why is mapping a controller in Live so convoluted?

Post by rbmonosylabik » Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:26 am

I love how easy it is to map controllers in Live using MIDI Map, but I have found myself in situations where I wish Live's MIDI Map editor was more capable. I think a lot of it could be solved by fleshing out the MIDI Map editor, allowing manual editing and addition of controller mappings, adding options to edit the control curve and range flexibility (eg. letting a know affect a parameter until it's turned halfway, then the other half affects another parameter).

It'd also be really nice if the Abes could figure out a way to make adding functionality like what the APC40/Launchpad provides from MIDI Map mode easy and elegant. Then there's the controller feedback issue. Not all controllers have the same capabilities to receive MIDI feedback from the host, so I can see how allowing simple programming of visual feedback can be tricky.

I think what they should do is turn MIDI Map mode into a complete controller mapping platform, redesign it so everything that can be done using normal MIDI Map, User Remote Scripts and Python MIDI Remote Scripts can be done from Live's GUI with an easy to use interface and make it easy to reuse mappings between sessions. It's the kind of stuff I wish is happening at Ableton HQ while we wait for Live 9.
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oddstep
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Re: Why is mapping a controller in Live so convoluted?

Post by oddstep » Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:29 am

yep

Guff Tong
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Re: Why is mapping a controller in Live so convoluted?

Post by Guff Tong » Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:15 am

+yarp

mackie mode, blue hand scripts and ad-hoc purple mapping.

luvs it and uses all...x

pencilrocket
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Re: Why is mapping a controller in Live so convoluted?

Post by pencilrocket » Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:27 am

oddstep wrote:User configuration of Live is currently a massive missed opportunity. In L6 there was the user config scripts, then people noticed that the python scripts could be hacked in 7 and then in 8 max for live was released giving some sort of semi official access to Live. The communication between Live and controllers has never been properly documented, everything has been achieved through hacks, guesswork and fragments of decompiled code. This is still true with M4L, a paid for product. Considering how important the human machine interface is to live performance its unfortunate that Ableton have put up so many hurdles to self expression.
Sounds like black box.

oddstep
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Re: Why is mapping a controller in Live so convoluted?

Post by oddstep » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:27 am

a grey area

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