About to spend £1000 - Help me out please - Mac or PC

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Khazul
Posts: 3185
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 5:19 pm
Location: Reading, UK

Re: About to spend £1000 - Help me out please - Mac or PC

Post by Khazul » Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:33 am

Ryanmf wrote:
rosti wrote:If you like to geek around with computers = 1

If you want something that works right out of the box = 2

Your call :D
I love to geek around with computers. OS X is Unix.

2.
Geeking around on a mac or pretty much any flavour of unix is a step way way back into the ancient dark ages of computing compared to .NET, power shell etc. That at lest was one thing the Microsoft really got right.

AppleScript and a bunch of ancient unix shells? Urgh - pain... lots of pain... Its like wading through a tar pit, though automator sometimes has it uses - its still very primitive compared to the results you can quickly get with a power shells script and some assist tools.

Yes - with a mac the nice thing is you don't generally have to mess with it unless you install a hell of a lot of junk.

Just deleting files is enough to remove a lot of things, but it still has it equivalent of a registry scattered around loads of files that you sometimes have to mess with at your peril - often more so than hacking the windows registry because of the way plist files are scattered all over. If I was being nasty - Id say they remind me of the really ancient days of DOS and early windows with its myriad of .ini files.
Nothing to see here - move along!

Ryanmf
Posts: 406
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:35 pm

Re: About to spend £1000 - Help me out please - Mac or PC

Post by Ryanmf » Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:54 am

Well, I started teaching myself to write HTML when I was 10 (1996), and have been doing web dev work on and off ever since, so dropping into a shell doesn't really perturb me. I think it's kind of nice to be able to hack together/copypasta a simple perl script for recurring tasks, things of that nature. At least it's not PHP (*gag*).

I've also got a full on Web/Python/Ruby Dev environment running on one of my user accounts, which is obviously not something the average user has any need for, nor did it come that way out of the box, but it unlocks a lot of interesting possibilities as it pertains to the stuff we're talking about.

But yeah, AppleScript kind of sucks, and most of the time Automator makes me want to punch myself in my own dick.

Khazul
Posts: 3185
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 5:19 pm
Location: Reading, UK

Re: About to spend £1000 - Help me out please - Mac or PC

Post by Khazul » Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:31 am

Ryanmf wrote:Well, I started teaching myself to write HTML when I was 10 (1996), and have been doing web dev work on and off ever since, so dropping into a shell doesn't really perturb me. I think it's kind of nice to be able to hack together/copypasta a simple perl script for recurring tasks, things of that nature. At least it's not PHP (*gag*).

I've also got a full on Web/Python/Ruby Dev environment running on one of my user accounts, which is obviously not something the average user has any need for, nor did it come that way out of the box, but it unlocks a lot of interesting possibilities as it pertains to the stuff we're talking about.

But yeah, AppleScript kind of sucks, and most of the time Automator makes me want to punch myself in my own dick.
I'm trying to write some apple script to automate some of my traktor library management - i.e. find all stuff in a particular iTunes play list that isn't in tractor and make a playlist of stuff that needs importing it as well as stuffing the new tracks into mixed in key for key labelling. All the direct iTunes and mixed in key UI prodding is fine until you discover you have to do some really simple string manipulation due to the way file paths are stored in the Traktor collection which is completely lacking in applescript and with that laborious syntax is a right pain (and hideous) to code up or shell it out to perl or whatever 8O

Oh and XML parsing (traktor collection database) in AppleScript is sooo slow...

Now doing the same on Windows - you have .NET wrappers for the iTunes COM APIs, very rich XML libraries, hash table based collections, string manipulation, you name it its pretty much there in power shell (as that give you full .NET access), so its all really quick and easy to do once you get your head round power shell syntax. So all this pissing about with a rats nest of apple scripts and shell scripts feels like stepping back 15 years.
Nothing to see here - move along!

Forge.
Posts: 5792
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:16 pm
Location: Earth
Contact:

Re: About to spend £1000 - Help me out please - Mac or PC

Post by Forge. » Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:39 am

mac

it's just less hassle with audio

Khazul
Posts: 3185
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 5:19 pm
Location: Reading, UK

Re: About to spend £1000 - Help me out please - Mac or PC

Post by Khazul » Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:55 am

Forge. wrote:mac

it's just less hassle with audio
And for anything else theres bootcamp ;)

Thats said despite my present grump at apple over their pre-historic scripting etc, Im quite happily almost exclusively using apple replacements for outlook (mail, cal, contacts via icloud etc), office (pages, number, keynote) etc. Sure, I have bootcamp with all that available as well as mac office, but just don't really need to use them or have any wish to.

In general day to day use - I do find OSX is just less hassle and boots a hell of a lot faster - never mind just for audio use.
Nothing to see here - move along!

Ryanmf
Posts: 406
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:35 pm

Re: About to spend £1000 - Help me out please - Mac or PC

Post by Ryanmf » Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:15 am

scutheotaku wrote:PHP ftw :x
Haha, sorry man.
Khazul wrote:I'm trying to write some apple script to automate some of my traktor library management - i.e. find all stuff in a particular iTunes play list that isn't in tractor and make a playlist of stuff that needs importing it as well as stuffing the new tracks into mixed in key for key labelling. All the direct iTunes and mixed in key UI prodding is fine until you discover you have to do some really simple string manipulation due to the way file paths are stored in the Traktor collection which is completely lacking in applescript and with that laborious syntax is a right pain (and hideous) to code up or shell it out to perl or whatever 8O

Oh and XML parsing (traktor collection database) in AppleScript is sooo slow...

Now doing the same on Windows - you have .NET wrappers for the iTunes COM APIs, very rich XML libraries, hash table based collections, string manipulation, you name it its pretty much there in power shell (as that give you full .NET access), so its all really quick and easy to do once you get your head round power shell syntax. So all this pissing about with a rats nest of apple scripts and shell scripts feels like stepping back 15 years.
Just ran a couple of quick searches, you might need to brush up on some/learn some new syntax for some of this stuff, but maybe something here will be useful, or even just talking to one of the devs/looking at their source to see how they solved a problem could be helpful, I don't know.

http://www.native-instruments.com/forum ... p?t=125776
https://github.com/liamks/pyitunes
https://github.com/Ludo6431/tsitool
http://pypi.python.org/pypi/hachoir-parser/1.3.4
http://marv.kordix.com/archives/000860.html
Khazul wrote:And for anything else theres bootcamp ;)
At this point, if I can't make it work in WineBottle/Crossover, I don't need it.

Khazul
Posts: 3185
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 5:19 pm
Location: Reading, UK

Re: About to spend £1000 - Help me out please - Mac or PC

Post by Khazul » Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:22 am

Cheers - Saw that NI thread before.

I ended up using XSLT for the traktor extraction and the associated string mangling etc - turns out there is an xsltproc command on OSX which seems to handle full 1.0 xslt. So I just made a much smaller and simpler XML for apple's noddy script to deal with :)
Nothing to see here - move along!

adam_mc
Posts: 168
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:33 pm
Location: Folkestone, Kent

Re: About to spend £1000 - Help me out please - Mac or PC

Post by adam_mc » Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:27 pm

Update:

Ended up spending more than my original budget and getting a Macbook Pro 2.2ghz i7 Quad Core 4gb Ram with Hi Res Screen.

Impressions so far =

WOW.

Many thanks for all the advice.
APM/BPM Folkestone Kent UK

Macbook Pro 2.2Ghz Quad Core i7 8gb Ram, Live 9, Push and other bits and pieces

trevox
Posts: 659
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:58 am

Re: About to spend £1000 - Help me out please - Mac or PC

Post by trevox » Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:54 am

adam_mc wrote:Update:

Ended up spending more than my original budget and getting a Macbook Pro 2.2ghz i7 Quad Core 4gb Ram with Hi Res Screen.

Impressions so far =

WOW.

Many thanks for all the advice.
Same machine as mine! I know you went over your budget, but in a while when you get some cash, I highly recommend replacing the optical drive with another HDD for Audio!!

masterblasterofdisaster
Posts: 137
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:43 am
Location: Vancouver BC

Re: About to spend £1000 - Help me out please - Mac or PC

Post by masterblasterofdisaster » Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:18 am

Khazul wrote: Geeking around on a mac or pretty much any flavour of unix is a step way way back into the ancient dark ages of computing compared to .NET, power shell etc. That at lest was one thing the Microsoft really got right.

AppleScript and a bunch of ancient unix shells? Urgh - pain... lots of pain... Its like wading through a tar pit, though automator sometimes has it uses - its still very primitive compared to the results you can quickly get with a power shells script and some assist tools.
I don't think this is a reasonable comparison. I "geek around" quite a bit, and I've never had reason to touch AppleScript - and unless I'm fiddling with installers or makefiles, I'll use Python (and even then, I could use Python); which of course has the benefit of being generally cross-platform.

pencilrocket
Posts: 1718
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 10:46 am

Re: About to spend £1000 - Help me out please - Mac or PC

Post by pencilrocket » Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:04 am

Simple answer. Don't buy below product if you don't think it's appropriate for your music production.

Macbook pro : noise warehouse. The less noise you want in your studio the less you are to use power of the machine, even though you paid considerable amount of money on its spec. Ironic. Only when you use it in the noisy place you won't notice it.
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/27 ... 5&tstart=0
But the fan noise when I'm using Logic is almost a deal killer at this point. I'm considering returning it, it's that bad.
You can't read thread without seeing people saying "DISSAPOINTED" and "Returned".

If you need more info search apple forum.

iMac : First of all, this is not targetting pro-use but home use. They don't offer anti-glare option and it forcibly comes with cheesy glossy eye strain display. Furthermore, Yellow tint display have being used in their manufacturing even though it has been reported by user since a long time ago, and they charges their fancy fruit logo computer $2000.
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread. ... 08&page=20
Its built structure is becoming fail in recent high end parts. The place and the way they built their HDD is bad. Many people felt annoyed with its noise.
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/22 ... 0&tstart=0
Heres again. You can't read thread without seeing people saying "DISSAPOINTED" and "Returned". Rethink youself whether you will throw your cash on this imperfect decent looking product for your production.

Macbook Air
: Apple now doesn't care of how this product works with their OS.
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/31 ... 5&tstart=0

If you need more info search apple forum.
Image

trevox
Posts: 659
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:58 am

Re: About to spend £1000 - Help me out please - Mac or PC

Post by trevox » Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:34 am

pencilrocket wrote:Simple answer. Don't buy below product if you don't think it's appropriate for your music production.

Macbook pro : noise warehouse. The less noise you want in your studio the less you are to use power of the machine, even though you paid considerable amount of money on its spec. Ironic. Only when you use it in the noisy place you won't notice it.
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/27 ... 5&tstart=0
But the fan noise when I'm using Logic is almost a deal killer at this point. I'm considering returning it, it's that bad.
You can't read thread without seeing people saying "DISSAPOINTED" and "Returned".

If you need more info search apple forum.

iMac : First of all, this is not targetting pro-use but home use. They don't offer anti-glare option and it forcibly comes with cheesy glossy eye strain display. Furthermore, Yellow tint display have being used in their manufacturing even though it has been reported by user since a long time ago, and they charges their fancy fruit logo computer $2000.
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread. ... 08&page=20
Its built structure is becoming fail in recent high end parts. The place and the way they built their HDD is bad. Many people felt annoyed with its noise.
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/22 ... 0&tstart=0
Heres again. You can't read thread without seeing people saying "DISSAPOINTED" and "Returned". Rethink youself whether you will throw your cash on this imperfect decent looking product for your production.

Macbook Air
: Apple now doesn't care of how this product works with their OS.
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/31 ... 5&tstart=0

If you need more info search apple forum.
I have a macbook pro and use Logic and Ableton. I record guitar/vocals all of the time and the fan noise has never been an issue. Funny how people point out threads saying people are '"disappointed" and "returned" etc etc and don't point out the threads that may say people are "happy" or "I'm keeping it". I am sure other, less expensive laptops are also not troublesome when it comes to fan noise, but I am also sure I could go out there and dig out some horror stories about most brands of laptop. I suggest just dropping your tirade against apple in every post you can find - it is getting tedious. You don't like Apple, we get it. Other people do. Make some music and quit your campaigning against products you do not own yourself.

PS: I don't need to look on forums for more information as I own a macbook pro and am very happy with it. Maybe you should include this statement next time you are making a "subjective" opinion on products based on other users experiences. Maybe add the OP's comment too as he seems happy.

pencilrocket
Posts: 1718
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 10:46 am

Re: About to spend £1000 - Help me out please - Mac or PC

Post by pencilrocket » Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:56 am

Recording isn't for Corei CPU job. It's for 5 years old CPU job. Your argument has nothing related with those who actually want the spec of current macbook pro. They and I are not referring to 5 year old macbook. Sorry.
Maybe you should include this statement next time you are making a "subjective" opinion on products based on other users experiences.
Why should I disclaim it subjective for those who claims their pruducts are perfect simply because they are "happy"? If people followed this logic all opinion would have been subjective because the pruduct they bought was perfect from the begining.

There are getting fewer people who belive other people's cognitive dissonance. Happy doesn't necessarily equal to the quality of the products, we studied that especially for Apple's unreasonably priced MADE IN CHINA product. Comsumer become doing smart comsuming.
Image

trevox
Posts: 659
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:58 am

Re: About to spend £1000 - Help me out please - Mac or PC

Post by trevox » Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:54 am

pencilrocket wrote:Recording isn't for Corei CPU job. It's for 5 years old CPU job. Your argument has nothing related with those who actually want the spec of current macbook pro. They and I are not referring to 5 year old macbook. Sorry.
Maybe you should include this statement next time you are making a "subjective" opinion on products based on other users experiences.
Why should I disclaim it subjective for those who claims their pruducts are perfect simply because they are "happy"? If people followed this logic all opinion would have been subjective because the pruduct they bought was perfect.

There are getting fewer people who belive other people's cognitive dissonance. Happy doesn't necessarily equal to the quality of the products, we studied that especially for Apple's unreasonably priced MADE IN CHINA product. Comsumer become doing smart comsuming.
I have a current macbook pro (2.2GHz quad core i7) and run heavy CPU Logic and Live projects. The fan does not make an unacceptable noise when recording (when it really matters) or when I am up to 70/80% CPU.

And for the record, I was not the one who brought individual posts on a forum saying people were "disappointed" or returning the product. I was simply flipping that on it's head - so with your logic, why should one person saying that they are "disappointed" or returning the product necessarily mean that it is a low quality product?

The only reason I bothered responding is that you seem to post on every mac related topic that they are in some way inferior - for what reason I have no idea. You are what I would term an anti-Apple fanboy and it is even worse than listening to Apple fanboys waffle on about how great apple products are (which I find very annoying too). I am not an apple fanboy and never tell anyone they should not buy a non-apple product. To be honest, I don't really care - I just respond to posts where I feel I can give some advice based on experience - i.e. actually owning a product that is being discussed. Do you own a macbook? If not, why on earth are you responding in the first place - it is not being helpful as you have no experience. And apart from anything else, you bothered to post this when the OP already made their choice! I really don't know what your agenda is, but it is pretty annoying.

pencilrocket
Posts: 1718
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 10:46 am

Re: About to spend £1000 - Help me out please - Mac or PC

Post by pencilrocket » Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:21 am

trevox wrote:The fan does not make an unacceptable noise when recording (when it really matters) or when I am up to 70/80% CPU.
So I said clealy in my post there'll be no problem when you use it in noisy place.
And for the record, I was not the one who brought individual posts on a forum saying people were "disappointed" or returning the product. I was simply flipping that on it's head - so with your logic, why should one person saying that they are "disappointed" or returning the product necessarily mean that it is a low quality product?
I have never said the product is absolutely low quality or told people not to buy them. Read my post carefully. I gatherd several imformation which are reported by people not one person ,and posted some summary.
The only reason I bothered responding is that you seem to post on every mac related topic that they are in some way inferior - for what reason I have no idea. You are what I would term an anti-Apple fanboy and it is even worse than listening to Apple fanboys waffle on about how great apple products are (which I find very annoying too).
I have no personal feeling on it. I don't know you have read my posts in other threads, I sometimes post criticizm about daws including Live but also post about the good side of these tool. I don't like to hide information even if they don't sound good.
I am not an apple fanboy and never tell anyone they should not buy a non-apple product. To be honest, I don't really care - I just respond to posts where I feel I can give some advice based on experience - i.e. actually owning a product that is being discussed. Do you own a macbook? If not, why on earth are you responding in the first place - it is not being helpful as you have no experience. And apart from anything else, you bothered to post this when the OP already made their choice! I really don't know what your agenda is, but it is pretty annoying.
If you thought the raw comment which were refered by users useful and helpful why haven't you had accepted them as they are rather than telling me they are trivial and not worth reading because they are "subjective" for you? I'm sorry to say this, but your reaction doesn't seem consistent to me.
Image

Post Reply