Eucon & Mixing in Live - Public Service Announcement

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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hmj
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Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 10:00 pm

Eucon & Mixing in Live - Public Service Announcement

Post by hmj » Sat Nov 05, 2011 10:17 pm

I feel like this needs to be said for the sake of many buying some very expensive equipment & considering the move to Live.

Eucon doesn't work in Live!

Ableton doesn't support the protocol so any professional users on System 5s or prosumer/project studio guys with Artists Mix, Controls etc think twice. The Mackie option Avid promotes is just a sneaky sale because it rarely even works with Live and when it does it's VERY limited. I think Live is SUPREME but but this is part of the not so bright side of Ableton no one wants to hear.

The support for hands down the most advanced mixing protocol is NON EXISTENT and you will be greatly disappointed if you try to come to this otherwise great program with the intention of performing your mix and automating like you're use to in Pro Tools or Logic. With all its greatness this is one of the biggest let downs in Ableton, it's shocking and there's no sight of a solution.

If you're new or thinking about Ableton because of all the great things you've heard, it's all true. The program is fantastic and I recommend it over anything BUT if MIXING is your art form think long and hard about committing to this platform. What they've done to production will go down in history but attention to the art of mixing is the ONLY short coming this program has.
Last edited by hmj on Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:41 am, edited 2 times in total.

Khazul
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Re: Eucon & Mixing in Live - Public Service Announcement

Post by Khazul » Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:20 pm

Did you find this out before or after you bought one?

AFAIK - Cubase, PT and Logic provide an API that allows controller developers to create code to provide good integration for advanced controllers. Live has such and API as well via scripts - so who fault is it?

Perhaps they did consider Live worth supporting as maybe they don't consider it to be on of the big DAWs?

If they wanted to provide deeply integrated control of live they could so I guess you need topmost this this in their forum.
Nothing to see here - move along!

hmj
Posts: 82
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 10:00 pm

Re: Eucon & Mixing in Live - Public Service Announcement

Post by hmj » Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:33 am

(Unfortunately) I still mix in Pro Tools so I didn't buy it for Ableton.

However, there is a large community of frustrated Pro Tools users that are jumping ship and leaving the program and I just wanted to let them know the definite facts of the situation. Avid advertises Ableton as supported but that is simply not the case.

Also, despite all their innovation and genius there is a certain neglect overall for the art of mixing from the Ableton squad, lack of Eucon support is just a small example. Anyone considering making the switch should know that they will get incredible creative tools and unprecedented flexablity but will be lacking some CRUCIAL pro mixing features.

To be fair, if you come from Pro Tools, the bussing system in Live is phenomenal and blows any other DAWS out of the water. Also, the drum racks mixing system is second to none. Ableton clearly has the best developers in the game and when they address a problem they innovate like no one in history, IMHO. The day those guys choose to apply themselves to the mixing part of this program is the day a new industry standard is born.

hoffman2k
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Re: Eucon & Mixing in Live - Public Service Announcement

Post by hoffman2k » Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:45 am

This comes up quite often and I'll repeat my questions since its been left unanswered: What is stopping Euphonix from implementing support themselves?

We have been abusing the API for over 5 years, its somewhat officially documented now since the MFL commands are nearly identical to the python commands, there are lots of iPad apps using this script, some scripts even add features to Live.

All Euphonix needs to do is hire a python developer for about a week, test the script with their hardware and send it off to Ableton to include in the next update.
Or make a Max external and let the community take care of the rest.
They have so many options. I just don't understand why they went with "Lets wait for Ableton to support us".
You could argue that Live supports many controllers so it should support these too, but take a good look at the supported controllers. About 80% are the same controller with 8 knobs/buttons.

Look at Ableton's jobs listing. They don't have the developers to spare for supporting a network based protocol that isn't OSC.

UncleAge
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Re: Eucon & Mixing in Live - Public Service Announcement

Post by UncleAge » Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:28 pm

hmj wrote: the bussing system in Live is phenomenal and blows any other DAWS out of the water.
Can you expand on this statement? In what way does it work better for you?

Rave
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Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:26 am

Re: Eucon & Mixing in Live - Public Service Announcement

Post by Rave » Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:10 pm

hmj wrote:I feel like this needs to be said for the sake of many buying some very expensive equipment & considering the move to Live.

Eucon doesn't work in Live!

Ableton doesn't support the protocol so any professional users on System 5s or prosumer/project studio guys with Artists Mix, Controls etc think twice. The Mackie option Avid promotes is just a sneaky sale because it rarely even works with Live and when it does it's VERY limited. I think Live is SUPREME but but this is part of the not so bright side of Ableton no one wants to hear.

The support for hands down the most advanced mixing protocol is NON EXISTENT and you will be greatly disappointed if you try to come to this otherwise great program with the intention of performing your mix and automating like you're use to in Pro Tools or Logic. With all its greatness this is one of the biggest let downs in Ableton, it's shocking and there's no sight of a solution.

If you're new or thinking about Ableton because of all the great things you've heard, it's all true. The program is fantastic and I recommend it over anything BUT if MIXING is your art form think long and hard about committing to this platform. What they've done to production will go down in history but attention to the art of mixing is the ONLY short coming this program has.

I own the mc mix and the faders and panning work.

hmj
Posts: 82
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 10:00 pm

Re: Eucon & Mixing in Live - Public Service Announcement

Post by hmj » Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:22 am

UncleAge wrote:
hmj wrote: the bussing system in Live is phenomenal and blows any other DAWS out of the water.
Can you expand on this statement? In what way does it work better for you?
It's just extremely simple & automatic. When you make a new aux track a little Send knob is created on every single track. In Pro Tools for example, you have to mouse your way to applying sends. You have to do it one by one or by selecting multiple tracks at once, etc. Long story short it's not automatic.

The Ableton developers removed like four steps from the process, there's nothing better.

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