Live 8 Instruments as good as Native Instruments FM8, Massiv

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Forge.
Posts: 5792
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:16 pm
Location: Earth
Contact:

Re: Live 8 Instruments as good as Native Instruments FM8, Massiv

Post by Forge. » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:18 am

aizo wrote:I tend to think of Live instruments as Legos. By it self a cute plain little toy but if you like to build and customize, then you can make some really crazy stuff with them.
my inner 8 year old just smiled. 8)

3dot...
Posts: 9996
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:10 pm

Re: Live 8 Instruments as good as Native Instruments FM8, Massiv

Post by 3dot... » Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:24 am

aizo wrote:I tend to think of Live instruments as Legos. By it self a cute plain little toy but if you like to build and customize, then you can make some really crazy stuff with them.
agreed!love the modular approach.. racks are a god send..
but even before .. you can route stuff around pretty easily..
today you can even create 'feedback chains' inside a track using a certain hole in the fence..
Image

#43
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:37 pm

Re: Live 8 Instruments as good as Native Instruments FM8, Massiv

Post by #43 » Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:30 pm

3dot... wrote:
aizo wrote:I tend to think of Live instruments as Legos. By it self a cute plain little toy but if you like to build and customize, then you can make some really crazy stuff with them.
agreed!love the modular approach.. racks are a god send..
but even before .. you can route stuff around pretty easily..
today you can even create 'feedback chains' inside a track using a certain hole in the fence..
Maybe Im offtopic but can u explain that?

Angstrom
Posts: 14699
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:22 pm
Contact:

Re: Live 8 Instruments as good as Native Instruments FM8, Massiv

Post by Angstrom » Sun Nov 13, 2011 1:30 pm

#43 wrote:
3dot... wrote:
aizo wrote:I tend to think of Live instruments as Legos. By it self a cute plain little toy but if you like to build and customize, then you can make some really crazy stuff with them.
agreed!love the modular approach.. racks are a god send..
but even before .. you can route stuff around pretty easily..
today you can even create 'feedback chains' inside a track using a certain hole in the fence..
Maybe Im offtopic but can u explain that?

In short : Some devices such as the compressor have a sidechain, and if you activate the side-chain preview then you can pull audio into the rack from any source in the app, even if it's deep in another rack. By 'any source' that also means itself, self-routing = feedback.
Be warned that there are penalties - automatic latency calculation becomes near to impossible in a looped calculation like this. I think this is why it's not been incorporated into an official feature. It's a "hack", but a useful one as long as you understand what it's doing and it's pitfalls. Route anything to anywhere.

3dot...
Posts: 9996
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:10 pm

Re: Live 8 Instruments as good as Native Instruments FM8, Massiv

Post by 3dot... » Sun Nov 13, 2011 1:34 pm

#43 wrote:
3dot... wrote:
aizo wrote:I tend to think of Live instruments as Legos. By it self a cute plain little toy but if you like to build and customize, then you can make some really crazy stuff with them.
agreed!love the modular approach.. racks are a god send..
but even before .. you can route stuff around pretty easily..
today you can even create 'feedback chains' inside a track using a certain hole in the fence..
Maybe Im offtopic but can u explain that?
here's an example..
please put a limiter after it for protection.. I forgot to..
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/639447/%21%21%2 ... roject.zip
Image

nebulae
Posts: 15707
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:16 am
Location: New Orleans
Contact:

Re: Live 8 Instruments as good as Native Instruments FM8, Massiv

Post by nebulae » Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:21 pm

Lots of excellent points here. I'll simply add two more...In a Live situation, I'd always prefer Ableton's synths over third party synths and effects because they are likely much more stable. My workflow has more and more gone in the direction of using Live's native tools not only for stability, but also for use in live situations, and also for future proofed work...meaning that a year or two later, a set built purely in Live will likely open up without any issues, but if I use external synths, there may be incompatibilities with updated versions and what not.
Image Image Image Image

gromgrom
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:23 am
Location: Munich, Germany

Re: Live 8 Instruments as good as Native Instruments FM8, Massiv

Post by gromgrom » Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:27 pm

I found this topic very interesting and must say that i absolutely LOVE operator :)

Slightly off topic: i've just been using Live's instruments plus free third party VSTs up to now. What would you recommend as a first third party synth? I hear Zebra 2 is insanely powerful and have tried it out and loved it. This might be a stupid question, but how does Zebra compare to the Komplete instruments? (Massive, FM8, Absynth, etc)

nebulae
Posts: 15707
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:16 am
Location: New Orleans
Contact:

Re: Live 8 Instruments as good as Native Instruments FM8, Massiv

Post by nebulae » Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:31 pm

A lot of people will tell you that Zebra is the only synth you'll ever need. It's certainly been the king of the heap for many years, and with good reason. It's a very reasonable investment. Plus, if you send in a picture of some older hardware of yours that you're retiring, you'll get a coupon off for $50, which makes Zebra a very valuable $149 purchase.

You might also look into Sylenth1, which is very easy to program and just a lovely, phat sounding, easy to program virtual analog that is very versatile.
Image Image Image Image

Forge.
Posts: 5792
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:16 pm
Location: Earth
Contact:

Re: Live 8 Instruments as good as Native Instruments FM8, Massiv

Post by Forge. » Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:38 pm

gromgrom wrote:I found this topic very interesting and must say that i absolutely LOVE operator :)

Slightly off topic: i've just been using Live's instruments plus free third party VSTs up to now. What would you recommend as a first third party synth? I hear Zebra 2 is insanely powerful and have tried it out and loved it. This might be a stupid question, but how does Zebra compare to the Komplete instruments? (Massive, FM8, Absynth, etc)
funny, I haven't wanted to be bothered by any 3rd party vsts for a long while (except just NI, Waves and Antares), but tonight I paid $20 for my first VST in ages - Muon Tau MkII

I have been having a 303 renaissance and I tried their free one with Live FX using the nativeKontrol LPC add-on as a step-sequencer and having loads of fun. But the pro one is 64 bit with 2x oversampling and accent knobs, so it's loads better, but I still am quite enjoying the 2 side by side.

The only reason I'm interested though is because it is emulating certain aspects of the 303, I just wouldn't buy another synth now (including the Muon Tau Pro) because I have everything I need aside from those specific emulations.

I tried the Phocyon and ABL versions, and they are great, but I don't need the step sequencer as I'm using the LPC. It's more about making it work with my controllers.

nebulae
Posts: 15707
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:16 am
Location: New Orleans
Contact:

Re: Live 8 Instruments as good as Native Instruments FM8, Massiv

Post by nebulae » Sun Nov 13, 2011 5:09 pm

Oh man, the Tau brings back a lot of old memories...that VST was really great and simple to use!!

I guess this brings up another issue here as well...ease of use and simplicity. IMHO, the Komplete stuff is really overwhelming in the amount of choices and tools you have. Unless you decided to spend a long time to really learn it, the complexity almost drives you to use presets rather than build your own. With Live, while the Library is extensive, the simplicity of the tools almost begs you to create your own with simple drag-drop-plug-play workflows. Not that either approach is better than the other, but these days, I'm leaning more and more toward simplicity in sound creation.
Image Image Image Image

kanuck
Posts: 622
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:29 pm

Re: Live 8 Instruments as good as Native Instruments FM8, Massiv

Post by kanuck » Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:15 pm

nebulae wrote:A lot of people will tell you that Zebra is the only synth you'll ever need. It's certainly been the king of the heap for many years, and with good reason. It's a very reasonable investment. Plus, if you send in a picture of some older hardware of yours that you're retiring, you'll get a coupon off for $50, which makes Zebra a very valuable $149 purchase.

You might also look into Sylenth1, which is very easy to program and just a lovely, phat sounding, easy to program virtual analog that is very versatile.
exactly why i want those 2.

they are completely different though. sylenth is designed to be a straightforward analog synth. This limitation is also what makes it so easy to patch and create great sounds.

zebra on the otherhand is a modular synth.. which means... possibilites are endless.

and thankfully there are demos for both

Machinesworking
Posts: 11118
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Live 8 Instruments as good as Native Instruments FM8, Massiv

Post by Machinesworking » Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:16 pm

Zebra is my desert island soft synth, no doubt. I've owned it forever though, so I don't get why people have a hard time with it? Love it to death.

djadonis206
Posts: 6490
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 4:23 pm
Location: Seattle, WA.

Re: Live 8 Instruments as good as Native Instruments FM8, Massiv

Post by djadonis206 » Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:18 pm

+1 for Sylenth

As time passes I get more comfortable with Komplete, one instrument at a time

I use Simpler all the time

Operator for low end

Vanguard for big big big stabs

I use it all, I don't discriminate
Ableton | Elektron

Music

abluesky
Posts: 101
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:08 pm

Re: Live 8 Instruments as good as Native Instruments FM8, Massiv

Post by abluesky » Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:19 pm

After years of using softsynths and seeing their development, I now use the following:

1. Reaktor
2. Aalto
3. Xils-lab Xils3
4. Korg Legacy Analog Collection
5. Audio Damage Phosphor

However, I do an incredible amount of sound design within Live itself using Sampler, Racks, and Routing signals. Over the years, I've augmented certain plugins in live with 3rd party VSTs, but I still rely heavily on Live's built in effects. As has been mentioned, if you really look into racks, the possibilities are legion. Live really is as much a sound design tool and instrument as it is a sequencer. Rather than invest into too many plugins, I would invest in better hardware (cpu, sound card, etc).

gromgrom
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:23 am
Location: Munich, Germany

Re: Live 8 Instruments as good as Native Instruments FM8, Massiv

Post by gromgrom » Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:45 pm

scutheotaku wrote:I second Sylenth1 - it's an excellent sounding, affordable plugin. It's got a great sound, and easy-to-use interface, and, if you use them, tons of great presets. It's a great pro synth, but also a great, rewarding synth for beginners. I'd definitely check out the demo if I were you: http://www.lennardigital.com/modules/sylenth1/
That is exactly what i'm doing right now ;) It really does sound great! will have to think about this one, seeing as the next thing i really want is the Doepfer Dark Energy :D

So much gear, so little time....

Post Reply