No way to disable record automation- and other frustrations

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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pkdrums*
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:15 am

No way to disable record automation- and other frustrations

Post by pkdrums* » Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:01 am

So I'm a 10 year ableton user. I recently opened my own studio and intend to use Live as my main DAW for tracking, editing, and mixing, and I'm running into walls that I never knew were there. I don't do much electronic music, and sure live is great for that but for analog, simple, recording rock live off the floor stuff, it seems to be failing.

Problem 1 simply put is that there is no way to disable automation writing while recording.

Say I have a vocalist recording in the booth and a producer here in the control room. While recording a vocal line the producer wants me to turn down the whole mix so we can hear the vocalist a bit better, then turn the mix back up to see how the vocals sound more in context. All of this is now automated, and I have to go and manually delete the automation otherwise on take two the same volume changes will occur which is not acceptable. Another example is if during recording we want track 3 a little higher and we turn it up, it now has this automation to it. The overall volume of the track is not up, but rather turns up at the time I turned it up while the recording was taking place.

Having any change made at all while the global record button is armed and the track is playing recorded should be something that can be disabled. This issue is pushing me away from live as my main DAW, as well as issue 2.

Issue 2 - No automatic send delay compensation

I've seen many posts about this and I've come to the conclusion there is no solution, only irritating workarounds. Say I have track 1, my drum overheads (output to master). I compress it and EQ it. Then, I also want parallel compression so I send it to return A (pre or post, doesnt matter, also output to the master) and put on more compression, more EQ, maybe some reverb. The issue is that since there are more effects on the return track there is a slight delay because of the necessary processing, and it creates major phase issues that ruin the sound. I have the option of trying to use the track delays and fiddle until it sounds OK, but I can never get it perfect, and I shouldn't have to waste time on this when it is more than possible to have it done automatically, as many competing DAWs do.

Cubase has both of these features built in, and I'm thinking I'll head in that direction if Ableton has no solutions to these problems, only lame workarounds.

3dot...
Posts: 9996
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:10 pm

Re: No way to disable record automation- and other frustrations

Post by 3dot... » Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:42 am

1.simples :
a track for the tracking (automation untouched)
a track routed track for fx/mixer... the whole track can be deleted if you need to get rif of automation..
another trick is to use a 'utility'/rack mixer for tweaking volume.. then deleting IT if not wanted....
it's really not a limitation.. simply a different approach

2. there is 'PDC' in Live.. but it has some issues :
if a sound is fed back from the returns ...pdc goes out the window..
if sends on a return track are simply 'enabled' (allowing the track to feedback to itself)..also..
if an external input is patched and monitored through vsts.. could cause a problem
(which sometimes has to do with the audio interface not reporting the right delay.. in which case you have to manually set it)
Last edited by 3dot... on Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Soundtrackband
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:16 am

Re: No way to disable record automation- and other frustrations

Post by Soundtrackband » Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:57 pm

I'm running into something similar right now. I'm trying to put down a new vocal track, while keeping the previous couple tracks, but they have a lot of speaker on/off automation between them that I don't want to lose. When I click them off, since I don't want to monitor them at the same time, the automation is recorded all off!
I usually avoid this specific problem, but this is pretty sad that I can't just disable global automation. I can turn down the volumes, but what if they are automated as well? This really is a pathetic weakness in an otherwise decent program.

OK, it seems that clicking IN instead of Auto solves this problem of muting, though Off does not (which would make sense). Time-wasting and mood-killing!

randrohe
Posts: 159
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2005 3:20 am

Re: No way to disable record automation- and other frustrations

Post by randrohe » Wed Nov 23, 2011 2:09 pm

These 2 items are what is making me consider Reaper. I'm still on LIVE 5 and am staying there until these issues are sorted..Come on Abes!!!

3dot...
Posts: 9996
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:10 pm

Re: No way to disable record automation- and other frustrations

Post by 3dot... » Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:14 pm

Soundtrackband wrote:I'm running into something similar right now. I'm trying to put down a new vocal track, while keeping the previous couple tracks, but they have a lot of speaker on/off automation between them that I don't want to lose. When I click them off, since I don't want to monitor them at the same time, the automation is recorded all off!
I usually avoid this specific problem, but this is pretty sad that I can't just disable global automation. I can turn down the volumes, but what if they are automated as well? This really is a pathetic weakness in an otherwise decent program.

OK, it seems that clicking IN instead of Auto solves this problem of muting, though Off does not (which would make sense). Time-wasting and mood-killing!
we are in the digital age....you don't have to "lose" stuff..DUPLICATE (or save)!
sure.. some sw does stuff differently..
but after using Live for a while you learn to get 'around' stuff like that..
it's not a mood killer
(a crash is a moodkiller...a crash report... a set not loading is too...)..
it's just you needing to adjust to the tool you're using..

the PDC issue is a bitch..
but also can be remedied by nudging the recorded audio a bit..or manually aligning using 'track delay' (a la protools le)
cheers
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