Multicore support needs a big overhaul

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
masterblasterofdisaster
Posts: 137
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Location: Vancouver BC

Re: Multicore support needs a big overhaul

Post by masterblasterofdisaster » Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:47 am

Vance wrote:- Thanks for the update steko

- I just the test on my Macbook Pro. It's a dual-core Mid-2009 machine, with hyperthreading. Basically, I could predict from my original results that I would be able to run 4 tracks seamlessly, with massive issues on the 5th track.

- I tried disabling hyperthreading by using the "sudo nvram SMT=0" command in Terminal. After rebooting, it made no difference to the test - 4 tracks was fine, 5 tracks was horrible. But I believe that's because the command actually didn't disable hyperthreading properly. As a dual-core CPU, with HT disabled, OS X should only be able to see the 2 physical cores. The OS X CPU meter showed the usual 4 cores, and during the test, OS X showed activity on all 4 of those cores.

- So it seems that that command isn't properly disabling hyperthreading, at least on my MBP. I'm reluctant to go too deep on testing that solution on my Mac Pro because I have to stay productive & can't afford downtime on that machine. I'll do my tinkering on the MBP (now that I've established that my test scales appropriately) and once I see something change/improve on the MBP I'll give it a go on the Mac Pro.
nvram -p will print the firmware variables so that you can check to see that SMT is set to zero.

Mister36
Posts: 394
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Re: Multicore support needs a big overhaul

Post by Mister36 » Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:08 am

I just wanted to pipe up in this thread...

I've recently started using Live again and, coming from Reaper, I had a big surprise in store. I started transferring/translating/converting/porting my Reaper projects to Live last night, using the same plugins, routings, settings, and content, and on the same machine, and to my horror, I was getting dropouts and all sorts of nasty noises (in addition to the ones I wanted). It was quite a hard pill to swallow, to be honest, and it was an awful shock.

Admittedly, I use Maschine and when NI implement even some multicore support, things will undoubtedly be better, but I still hope Ableton can vastly improve the way Live handles multiple cores. It just takes all the fun out of it when you have to strip back a set, even though the actual CPU usage of the machine is never higher than 23%.

wald
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Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:03 pm

Re: Multicore support needs a big overhaul

Post by wald » Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:34 pm

I was trying out Reaper on a 3.4 Ghz I7 and saw differences of similar magnitude.

Quite depressing really...

ze2be
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Re: Multicore support needs a big overhaul

Post by ze2be » Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:44 pm

Mister36 wrote:I've recently started using Live again and, coming from Reaper, I had a big surprise in store. I started transferring/translating/converting/porting my Reaper projects to Live last night, using the same plugins....... It was quite a hard pill to swallow, to be honest, and it was an awful shock.
Keep in mind though, that a lot of resorces goes to keep everything prepared to be played and remixed, moved, drag n droped, without glitching the signal. The live set comes first. Naturally this requires more resources then your typical linear "of line" DAW.
? ? ? ? ?

pencilrocket
Posts: 1718
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 10:46 am

Re: Multicore support needs a big overhaul

Post by pencilrocket » Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:09 pm

Mister36 wrote:I just wanted to pipe up in this thread...

I've recently started using Live again and, coming from Reaper, I had a big surprise in store. I started transferring/translating/converting/porting my Reaper projects to Live last night, using the same plugins, routings, settings, and content, and on the same machine, and to my horror, I was getting dropouts and all sorts of nasty noises (in addition to the ones I wanted). It was quite a hard pill to swallow, to be honest, and it was an awful shock.

Admittedly, I use Maschine and when NI implement even some multicore support, things will undoubtedly be better, but I still hope Ableton can vastly improve the way Live handles multiple cores. It just takes all the fun out of it when you have to strip back a set, even though the actual CPU usage of the machine is never higher than 23%.
Interesting information. Thx for sharing.
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Mister36
Posts: 394
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Re: Multicore support needs a big overhaul

Post by Mister36 » Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:19 pm

ze2be wrote:
Mister36 wrote:I've recently started using Live again and, coming from Reaper, I had a big surprise in store. I started transferring/translating/converting/porting my Reaper projects to Live last night, using the same plugins....... It was quite a hard pill to swallow, to be honest, and it was an awful shock.
Keep in mind though, that a lot of resorces goes to keep everything prepared to be played and remixed, moved, drag n droped, without glitching the signal. The live set comes first. Naturally this requires more resources then your typical linear "of line" DAW.
While there is truth to this and Live undoubtedly does more behind the scenes in some areas than a typical linear DAW, when it can't stand up against a linear DAW to do stuff that another (Reaper) can do, it tastes a bit sour still, especially when these are things you can't actually see taking up the resources (unlike if you have three million plugins loaded, for example). Additionally, though, I had no audio clips loaded at all, so Live wasn't having to be ready for their launch etc.

And I realise I haven't given that much info and a very comprehensive account of my experience but I just wanted to remark upon my shock, horror, and disappointment.

Vance
Posts: 348
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Re: Multicore support needs a big overhaul

Post by Vance » Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:44 am

ze2be wrote:Keep in mind though, that a lot of resorces goes to keep everything prepared to be played and remixed, moved, drag n droped, without glitching the signal. The live set comes first. Naturally this requires more resources then your typical linear "of line" DAW.
This is demonstrably not the case at all - look at the CPU meter readouts in my original post. At the point when Live starts to become unusable due to dropouts, CPU usage is very very low indeed... Reaper manages to make use of a lot more CPU power before it starts to glitch, in comparison to Live.

nathannn
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Re: Multicore support needs a big overhaul

Post by nathannn » Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:31 am

nebulae wrote:^ I'm really looking forward to getting back to my FL Studio license once they release FL for Mac.
yeah, i was all nostalgic for fruity so i downloaded it again. then i remembered why i stopped using it. no real audio recording or editing.
i remember loving that piano roll but this time i was annoyed with being forced to use tools instead of just clicking to add and double clicking to delete notes.
it does look cool, but then the windows tend to overpopulate the screen when you really get into making a song.

btw i remember a few "mac fags" this and "mac fags" that from you.. so are you a full on fag now or just bi-computing?
The Push / Novation Launch Pad / Novation Launch Pad Pro / Novation Launch Key
/ Launch Control XL / Machine MkII / Machine Studio / BeatStep / Livid OhmRGB / Livid Code V2 / Apc 40 MKII

no computers or synths

20 Copies of Ableton Live Lite.

pencilrocket
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Re: Multicore support needs a big overhaul

Post by pencilrocket » Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:43 am

But now FL do better audio editing than Live. Sry, I made a digression.
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nathannn
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Re: Multicore support needs a big overhaul

Post by nathannn » Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:46 am

not for me it doesn't.
you have to use that edison thing that just adds another window.. and isn't edison destructive?
The Push / Novation Launch Pad / Novation Launch Pad Pro / Novation Launch Key
/ Launch Control XL / Machine MkII / Machine Studio / BeatStep / Livid OhmRGB / Livid Code V2 / Apc 40 MKII

no computers or synths

20 Copies of Ableton Live Lite.

pencilrocket
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Re: Multicore support needs a big overhaul

Post by pencilrocket » Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:47 am

nathannn wrote:not for me it doesn't.
you have to use that edison thing that just adds another window.. and isn't edison destructive?
Because you are noob.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=an4tVxHKV68
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H20nly
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Re: Multicore support needs a big overhaul

Post by H20nly » Wed Nov 23, 2011 7:05 am

nathannn wrote:not for me it doesn't.
you have to use that edison thing that just adds another window.. and isn't edison destructive?
i can't stand the way FL handles audio. Edison was a pain when i tried to use it. it would take something pretty damn special for me to try it again. i am a fan of FL for MIDI sure, but for me Live is where it's at for that in terms of elasticity. i do use Sound Forge as an editor if i feel the need to go deeper into those kind of edits but zooming, splicing and automations in Live usually carry me through.

nathannn
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Re: Multicore support needs a big overhaul

Post by nathannn » Wed Nov 23, 2011 7:07 am

@pencilpenis well yeah im a noob to edison i guess. but that video dont show what im talking about... basic non destructive editing.
The Push / Novation Launch Pad / Novation Launch Pad Pro / Novation Launch Key
/ Launch Control XL / Machine MkII / Machine Studio / BeatStep / Livid OhmRGB / Livid Code V2 / Apc 40 MKII

no computers or synths

20 Copies of Ableton Live Lite.

nathannn
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Re: Multicore support needs a big overhaul

Post by nathannn » Wed Nov 23, 2011 7:09 am

H20nly wrote:
nathannn wrote:not for me it doesn't.
you have to use that edison thing that just adds another window.. and isn't edison destructive?
i can't stand the way FL handles audio. Edison was a pain when i tried to use it. it would take something pretty damn special for me to try it again. i am a fan of FL for MIDI sure, but for me Live is where it's at for that in terms of elasticity. i do use Sound Forge as an editor if i feel the need to go deeper into those kind of edits but zooming, splicing and automations in Live usually carry me through.
yeah i agree with you 100 percent, like i said this is why i really cant go back to fruity.
The Push / Novation Launch Pad / Novation Launch Pad Pro / Novation Launch Key
/ Launch Control XL / Machine MkII / Machine Studio / BeatStep / Livid OhmRGB / Livid Code V2 / Apc 40 MKII

no computers or synths

20 Copies of Ableton Live Lite.

pencilrocket
Posts: 1718
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 10:46 am

Re: Multicore support needs a big overhaul

Post by pencilrocket » Wed Nov 23, 2011 7:12 am

Are you blinded? Read the title of this topic. You are hijacking with your noobness revealing throughout your irrelevant posts.
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