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 Post subject: Re: McMillen QuNeo looks to be everything I want in a controller
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:11 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:38 pm
Posts: 58
I'm just digging in to the QuNeo, learning how to set it up with Ableton, hitting some frustrations.

But one thing I found that helps is the forum on the Keith McMillen site--the support forum for QuNeo. The support staff show up every now and then to say things like "oh, we took out that feature but haven't updated the manual yet." or "Yeah, the Ableton script is buggy and the LED signals are hardwired. We'll fix is soon."

Here's and example:
http://forum.keithmcmillen.com/viewtopi ... hift#p2501

I'm not bitching. This is a small company--probably just a few guys--doing ambitious, innovative things, so we should be patient, for a while, as they work out the kinks. In the meantime, we QuNeo pioneer can work together to share what we're learning as we plow ahead.

I suggest any QuNeo owner participate in the QuNeo Forum as well as here, and post cross links. That way we can incorporate the support people into our discussion, and maybe influence what they fix next.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: McMillen QuNeo looks to be everything I want in a controller
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:14 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:38 pm
Posts: 58
QuNeo Firmware Updated

New firmware update just released. Public Beta v1.2. Haven't loaded it up yet, but I'm hoping this fixes some of the problems. Long list of feature upgrades.

Some are reporting problems getting it to work, but others are posting tips for avoiding those problems. See here:
http://forum.keithmcmillen.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=850

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: McMillen QuNeo looks to be everything I want in a controller
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:16 pm 

Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 8:43 pm
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Location: Schmocation
Does anyone know how the Quneo behaves if you change USB ports? Is it still recognised as the same unit, or is it reinstalled as a new device every time, like the Launchpad (which gets a number prefix, e.g. "5-Launchpad" every time you plug it into a new port)?

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 Post subject: Re: McMillen QuNeo looks to be everything I want in a controller
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:17 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:02 am
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Location: Menasha, Wisconsin
If McMillen ever makes a qwerty keyboard with touchpad (with everything on it seconding as amazing midi controllers). I'm buying that shit.


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 Post subject: Re: McMillen QuNeo looks to be everything I want in a controller
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:59 pm 

Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:58 am
Posts: 658
sporkles wrote:
Does anyone know how the Quneo behaves if you change USB ports? Is it still recognised as the same unit, or is it reinstalled as a new device every time, like the Launchpad (which gets a number prefix, e.g. "5-Launchpad" every time you plug it into a new port)?

Windows or Mac? I can confirm that it does not matter what USB port you use on a mac...


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 Post subject: Re: McMillen QuNeo looks to be everything I want in a controller
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:31 pm 

Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 8:43 pm
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Ok, thanks. I'm on Windows; I guess that could make a difference. Can any Windows users chime in?

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 Post subject: Re: McMillen QuNeo looks to be everything I want in a controller
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:21 am 

Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:36 pm
Posts: 8
sporkles wrote:
Ok, thanks. I'm on Windows; I guess that could make a difference. Can any Windows users chime in?



^ As I assume you have figured out by now, the Quneo does not reset itself or become a new device to windows if you change USB ports. I am running Windows 7 and have used it both through a powered hub and the inline port without issue. Just wanted to chime in for other potential readers.

shadx312 wrote:
For me it's what I expected, fortunately, which is a blank slate for me to add scripting features in both a performance and control surface context (not that different from Push, sans the dedicated controls). While I'm still learning how to implement framework for making a custom remote user script, I can still use Clyphx x-controls, and it's all in how I want to design it, and it's pretty frickin' cool. I've been making custom racks and assigning specific controls to them to get specific settings including randomization. Between drum rack controls, composition tools, sequencing, the possibilities are all there, it comes down to you, which is the main thing and probably not for most people.

It really shines in the X/Y and pressure areas, and again, it's all in how you implement them. A general example would be assigning pressure to both a buffer repeat or arp speed as well as filter cutoff, which gives awesome results.

Yes, it may look like it comes with a magazine :lol: but it's tough and does what it's supposed to.
The software editor does the job and is supposedly getting some improvements.

I'm bound to make some video examples but my previous experience with recording screencast along with webcam with quality output hasn't been pleasant.

Here are a couple examples:



I am a total newcomer to the QuNeo and programming controllers in general. Something like what you have shown in your images looks to be exactly what I'd like to do with my device. Previously I had been using an APC40 with nK scripts which were awesome, I just chose the QuNeo due to its portability and its velocity sensitivity compared to the APC.

I was hoping to get a little bit more info as to how this mapping is done, I notice you have a mode where different scales can be selected, I assume to be played on the pads? Also, with all of the features have you incorporated a sort of bank switching process? If so, how? I have looked high and low, and watched many MANY monotonous KMI QuNeo video tutorials and cannot figure out how to do what you are doing.

If anyone could offer some assistance I would be certainly grateful, thanks! :)


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 Post subject: Re: McMillen QuNeo looks to be everything I want in a controller
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:57 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:50 pm
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Quote:
I was hoping to get a little bit more info as to how this mapping is done, I notice you have a mode where different scales can be selected, I assume to be played on the pads?


The mapping was done by assigning clyphx x-controls (in a UserSettings script) to the midi notes I had setup on the Quneo.
Clyphx x-controls access Live's API as a midi remote script, and you can choose what parts of Live you want to control, so you can assign those instructions to your midi controllers. It simply uses midi notes and control changes. So, I had different quneo presets so I could use different midi notes and channels for more x-control functions.
However, since I got M4L with the 9 update I've been porting over my Clyphx functionality so most of the clyphx controls are getting phased out.

There are a lot of advantages to using an M4L patch instead of Clyphx x-controls.
A big one is that I don't really like having to switch quneo presets all the time to switch to different "pages" of functionality (like nativeKontrol modes for the APC or LPC series). Even though I can get the presets to change automatically, I'm picky about the amount of time the quneo takes to switch to another preset (around 1.5 seconds). So with the M4L patch I can just have any midi numbers set on the quneo (I just do 0-63 on the pads, like monome) and then for every different "page" or "mode" I just use a gate and change the instructions. I *was* converting the midi notes to access the Clyphx X-controls but had to set up midi tracks for each separate channel I needed to access in the script (because Live's MIDI spec sucks) but since I've gotten the hang of controlling Live's API I really don't need those X-Controls anymore, so in short it's more of a closed system, not having to go outside of live, rely in midiyokeas much, etc. And the only time I need to change a Quneo preset is when I need to access X/Y pads, so really I only need to have 2 presets for the different pages I have set up (so far)

Alright well, that's probably above your head but it might be good info for others, anyway, I do have a page where I'm accessing CHORDS, not scales, personally I don't like using scales; I need my accidentals:) but they're alright sometimes. I do have a rack of the 8 traditional modal scales, but that's more of a filter; I have midi tracks with the signal path of custom racks going as: CHORDS -> ARP -> MODES, so with Modes last in the chain you can get nice little modal/key change variations. I will share the racks soon, relatively soon. Sooner than Bitwig soon :P

Now you mentioned Bank Switching process, but in what way, bank switching with user remote script (blue hand)? Or Quneo bank switching where the preset can transpose the midi notes? I haven't had a use for that, and since I have M4L I can do whatever mapping settings I need in there, which is great, because is goes back to not having to rely on using or setting up multiple quneo presets.

That being said, to keep it simple and direct to your question, if you want to customize and not rely on the scripts that are currently availble for quneo, you can go the Clyphx X-control route, or the M4L route. Excuse the redundancy.

The advantages to the Clyphx route is: less cpu/ram, because you don't need M4L. The cons are, you'll need to use midiyoke and maybe midi-ox (I've been using midi-ox, it's great, but again, since using M4L, it's becoming obsolete. The scripting is easy; though if you want more advanced functionality (like having multiple simultaneous actions happening in a sequence) you may have to learn some python (not hard) to create custom user actions. Also, it's free. Another con is, you'll need to set up a number of quneo presets for pretty much every page or mode, or set up different mappings in midi-ox and have those change, which is easy but tedious.

M4L advantages: In the box functionality, No relying on midi-yoke, or midi-ox (as much or at all). Instead of having to set up different quneo presets to have different functional pages you can just switch gates in max and change the instructions to fit the midi notes, instead of needing to dedicate a particultar midi note to a particular instruction (though changing midi notes is easy). Learning curve is alot higher for Max than Python but that's maybe like comparing 4D to 2D.

Other than that, nativeKontrol is said to be having a Quneo script similar to the LPC series, but he's bogged down with Push stuff so that might be awhile.
There's also a Launchpad port without the user modes. I *was* using another script called QuneoLive and modified a few things and used that with my X-Controls, but I don't need Quneo scripts anymore, and things are more streamlined and consolidated.

OH, not to forget a huge thing: PROGRAMMING LEDS. That was the most time consuming process of the programming, and I went a few different routes, some straight up complicated convoluted shit that fortunately I don't need to use anymore. Without Max it's a pain in the ass, because you'll have to do some kind of programming to get LED behavior, and that's just not as optimal in many compared to programming it in Max.
So if you really want to get the most out of quneo, I'd say get M4L.
It's a lot more fun than learning to program in Python anyway.

That being said, I'm a newb with Max but I've gotten far since I got it, so I've pretty much got up to Push functionality just on my own from scratch, and should be past it by next month. It's also getting more advanced and twice as functional compared to an LPC or APC script, but being a newb I know that the coding isn't as optimal as it can be, so I don't want to release anything at least until I get get CPU cut in half. Right now it takes about 8% on a dual-core.

For you, if you really want custom control, you'll have to learn programming on some level, whether it's Python or M4L, and at least know what MIDI is and does.
Otherwise you can wait for others to put out some stuff.
Can't say when I'll be putting something out; maybe instead of one huge patch I'll release them in parts, I dunno, and I take forever just to get out of bed so I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for me. The other things is is half of my controls are specifically tailored to some racks and tracks so the patch wouldn't work out of the box for everyone unless they used the same template as I do (which I wouldn't mind sharing, sans the samples and vsts)
I will put out those Chord and Arp racks, though, they are immensely useful.

I do tend to work faster when I have money in front of my face, though.
I really should get some video up though, just to flex.

For now I think you're stuck with hard-mapping Quneo controls to whatever in Live. Are you familiar with User Remotes scripts so you can use the faders to acess the blue-hand automapping?

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 Post subject: Re: McMillen QuNeo looks to be everything I want in a controller
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:08 am 

Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:36 pm
Posts: 8
shadx312 wrote:
Quote:
I really should get some video up though, just to flex.

For now I think you're stuck with hard-mapping Quneo controls to whatever in Live. Are you familiar with User Remotes scripts so you can use the faders to acess the blue-hand automapping?


Man, you are awesome! I was not expecting a reply that fast, much less one so chock full of information and help, thank you!

To answer your last question, no I am not familiar with how to set up a User Remote Script to control the blue hand automation. I have figured out how to make drum racks and the like transpose so that you can play many samples on one preset, something that I think should have been implemented from the get go. Thinking on this now, the rack control, blue hand, is pretty much one of the main things I would like for my QuNeo to do. It'd really help, for me personally, to give it just that much more portable functionality. I figured that it had something to do with those scripts, as I know that is how the nK scripts work, I just don't know how to get into them.

I read back around page 11 on this thread I believe where you were sharing about using the clyphx and such and I was taking a look at that, its late here so I couldn't quite wrap my head around it. But now, reading what you wrote above about phasing that out in lieu of MAX and Live 9, I'm tempted to just go that route. I have created a few things in pd and MAX but never communication-wise. It was more of a small synth patch or sequencer type thing. That being said, I am all for learning how to open this controller up to it's possibilities.

Stray and his Native Kontrol can write some killer stuff, but like you said, you can certainly make something much more personalized and tailored to you if you have the tools and means to do so. Definitely with the push coming out he's going to be preoccupied with that. Even as I'm typing this, I am subtly talking myself into learning how to do all of this, I think it'd be great. I feel like this controller had a ton of hype and kind of got bad marks not because of what it can do, but because of what it doesn't do right out of the box. It'd be super to learn how to control it an set it up in a way that'd be perfect for me.

Is there a good resource that you can point me to for getting into this? Hearing more about it, I am sold. I would definitely like to see some of your work and mapping that you have put together, it sounds like you really have a pretty swell setup on you QuNeo! :mrgreen:

Ah, also, if I got live 9 would I be able to do all of this MAX work in M4L? I really am hoping so.

Thanks again for the great advice!


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 Post subject: Re: McMillen QuNeo looks to be everything I want in a controller
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:31 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:50 pm
Posts: 7018
Here's how you can set up user remote scripts: http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/07/a ... s-control/

What I did was make 2 user remote scripts for the Quneo, a folder called Quneo A and a folder called Quneo B.

Since you can switch between 4 banks on the vertical faders I can use the first 2 banks to control macros on one device while using banks 3 and 4 to control macros on another device.
You'll have to assign extra buttons for locking the device and switching between device banks, and you set that in the user remote script.
So with the Quneo preset you set up the vertical fader location to be cc's like 0-7, then in the other user remote script you can just change the cc's to 8-16.
Just remember in the script that the midi channel starts from zero, so if you're using midi channel 8, you set the number in the script to 7.

The in the midi preference your user remote script folder names show up in the control surfaces list, and you can select one slot for "Quneo A" and another for "Quneo B"
Ideally it would be nice to consolidate multiple user remote scripts into one slot, but that's up to Ableton.

You can use M4L 5 in Live 8 (maybe 6 but it isn't supported iirc) so you could still do some patching in 8 if you want, but Live 9 has extra functions in the API, like accessing chains in racks, and some other functions where you previously had to rely on midi-to-keystroke to do some things like duplicating and deleting clips, duplicating midi patterns, others.

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 Post subject: Re: McMillen QuNeo looks to be everything I want in a controller
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:17 am 

Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:58 am
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shadx312 wrote:
Quote:
That being said, I'm a newb with Max but I've gotten far since I got it, so I've pretty much got up to Push functionality just on my own from scratch, and should be past it by next month. It's also getting more advanced and twice as functional compared to an LPC or APC script, but being a newb I know that the coding isn't as optimal as it can be, so I don't want to release anything at least until I get get CPU cut in half. Right now it takes about 8% on a dual-core.
I think you've gotten well past the newb classification judging by what you have done so far! One thing that you may or may not have considered is that when accessing the Live API, it is at audio rate. If you downsample (which is totally acceptable for midi controllers), you can cut the CPU usage by a ridiculous amount. You may have already done this of course!

I've been using Max/MSP for quite a while and the single biggest thing you can do to make you patches leaner is to make them modular. If you find yourself repeating the same combination of even 3 or 4 objects that provide one single function, create a patcher with the relevant inputs/outputs. If you save them as patchers, you can of course re-use these in the same project or even in future projects. In effect, you end up building your own library of objects. It makes debugging large patchers a lot easier too.

I am using Max (not M4L) as my controller interface - main reason for this is that I use Logic a lot and want to have one single interface that will work with any DAW. It's sounds like you are creating something quite similar to me, so if you like, I could have a quick look at what you've done to see if there are some short cuts I could share. I think you may have some elements that would help me get additional functionality too!


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 Post subject: Re: McMillen QuNeo looks to be everything I want in a controller
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:18 pm 

Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 2:47 pm
Posts: 337
So am I crazy, or does simple preset switching still not work right on this thing? When I fire up Live with Quneo on preset 9, it works fine, but if I change to Preset 1 to play a drum rack, then back to 9 to launch clips, preset 9 is all fucked up - the LEDs are all off until you touch them one by one, the volume sliders seem to control different tracks than they should, etc. No response from multiple emails to support, either. Very frustrating.

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 Post subject: Re: McMillen QuNeo looks to be everything I want in a controller
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 5:26 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:50 pm
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Hey Trevox, I'll be tidying up what I have so far next week and you can take a look at it. I started it when I knew nothing about Max and have come a long way since then, though there's still plenty of optimizations that can be made, and I don't mean CPU wise, as it's pretty lean (it's midi only device, no audio) but I'm sure there are better ways (ie expressions) to handle some things but I have a lot of functionality under the hood and will probably have some quneo owners beta test probly in a few weeks.

Matt, My preset switching is fine, but it sounds more like you're having script trouble. They never seemed to do a good job at rolling one out. If you have M4L though, you might like what I have in store:)
Except the one thing I'm not really interested in including is a clip launcher :lol: Launchpad is good for that:)

Actually LP and Quneo make a nice odd couple.

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 Post subject: Re: McMillen QuNeo looks to be everything I want in a controller
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:27 pm 

Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 2:47 pm
Posts: 337
Yeah, I honestly have no idea what the issue is. The scripts are showing up in the Preferences window the way they should (or rather, would for any other controller) Like I said, if I start up Live with Quneo in preset 9, and just leave it there, everything works fine. It's just when i try to switch to another preset, then BACK to preset 9 that everything goes wonky.

Very interested in whatever you're rolling out though, will be following along!

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 Post subject: Re: McMillen QuNeo looks to be everything I want in a controller
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:17 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:50 pm
Posts: 7018
Yeah I think it was said on the forum that they outsourced to have a script written and it didn't go over well. I thought it improved for the Live 9 update but I guess not:/

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