Harsh reality of Automation in Live or I'm doin it wrong?

[dadarkman]

Hi everyone,

I just finished my first full project in Ableton Live. In that project of 18 Tracks, 12 of them have different Automation on them and the whole project is done in the Arrangement View, with Clip View totally empty.. Everything seems to be alright until I had to start the mixing process. To mix the song the appropriate way, I gotta bring all faders down to -inf dB. However, as soon as I drag a fader down, The "Back to Arrangement View" button lit up and the Pink line of the Automation turn Brown which make the automation on the track inactive. I'm coming from Pro Tools where, no matter how and what you do with the faders, the automation stays as is. Mind you, I know about the "Back to Arrangement View" button lighting up when the Clip View and Arrangement View have different track placement and Automation, etc...; My clip view has no tracks at all.

So, like I asked in the title of the thread, am I doing something wrong? If so, how you go around to mix a song in Ableton Live properly after applying automation to the tracks? I know I could spend extra hours with the mouse and dragging the Volume automation up and down on the screen but I have the M-Audio Projectmix I/O which makes mixing with hands on the faders so much more easier and enjoyable, I'd rather you use the board any day.

Thanks in advance for replying.

[xenomachino1]

if its volume automation, you have to drop a "utility" plugin (ableton plugin) at the end on every track you want to automate, and automate the "gain" parameter. Its the only successful way to do so.

[kev herb]

Automating gains is the best way but as it's too late for that you will need to use utility gain as main volume now. Or export all tracks and reload them in a new session for mixing. Bit of a shit I know.

[dadarkman]

kev herb and xenomachino1, thanks both of you for the reply. I'll use the Utility as advice. I hope a better suitable way for mixing comes in Live 9. well, just a hope.

Thanks again!!

[kanuck]

kev herb and xenomachino1, thanks both of you for the reply. I'll use the Utility as advice. I hope a better suitable way for mixing comes in Live 9. well, just a hope.

Thanks again!!

for volume automation i found a blank audio effect rack works better. Since an audio effect rack can go to -inf opposed to the utility.

[dadarkman]

kev herb and xenomachino1, thanks both of you for the reply. I'll use the Utility as advice. I hope a better suitable way for mixing comes in Live 9. well, just a hope.

Thanks again!!

for volume automation i found a blank audio effect rack works better. Since an audio effect rack can go to -inf opposed to the utility.

Huhmmm!!! interesting. I'll give that a shot too.
Thanks for the tip.

[simmerdown]

also you can 'group track' on (even a single) track, then work the volume on the 'group' and the automation stays intact....

[dancing Ray]

also you can 'group track' on (even a single) track, then work the volume on the 'group' and the automation stays intact....

nice one

[kev herb]

plenty of ways to skin a cat

[mharris]

You should think twice about automating any of the mixer controls (volume, pan, sends etc..) because you run into the exact problem that you describe. Always try to find a work around (e.g automate a Utility plug-in instead) and if you cant then as a last resort, add the mixer automation after you are happy with the mix. This obviously relies on your automation being fairly simple fades / pans and not an integral part of the sound. Any further fine tuning of the automated mix can then be done with the automation lines.

Before I took the time to fully read the manual I used to have this problem quite a lot because I'd use mixer automation to do clip fades and panning. Make sure you read chapter 19 Clip Envelopes in the manual. A lot of the time automation can be avoided all together with clip envelopes.

[arafel]

http://www.sonalksis.com/freeg.htm

Free G - Utility Meter Plug.

Use that for Vol / Pan / etc automation.
Lets you choose dif pan laws (if you need).

Imho - The Back to Arrange issue stems from Live being able to be used 'live' and to improvise (awesome to use Session to rearrange and play an arrangement - or to come up with ideas)... Has great advantages if you use it.. but the disadvantage is you need to avoid it if you dont.

[simmerdown]

plenty of ways to skin a cat

yeh, can yer Frooty Tools do all those different work-arounds!?

LOL

[kev herb]

cat skinning is so underrated these days... shame really

[oblique strategies]

http://www.sonalksis.com/freeg.htm

Free G - Utility Meter Plug.

Use that for Vol / Pan / etc automation.
Lets you choose dif pan laws (if you need).

I can no longer recommended this plugin. It used to be a simple download, but no more.

Sonalkis have implemented an absolutely terrible system for distributing their software: to get FreeG you have to install demos of all their plugins & their plugin manager app.

I may have missed something & done this uninstall wrong, but each plugin had to be individually uninstalled, one at a time; which required entering my admin. password for each one! BIG waste of time.

FreeG cannot really be considered "free" after you factor in all the time it takes to get rid of all the other software that is installed in the process. Why not just let me download the ones I am interested in? No thanks Sonalkis.

[dadarkman]

also you can 'group track' on (even a single) track, then work the volume on the 'group' and the automation stays intact....

Man, your advice was the one working for me the best in this situation since I already had my tracks grouped anyway. I just never noticed that if you bring the fader of the whole group down, it doesn't mess with the automation. Well, I think moving forward that's the mixing tactic I'll implement on automated tracks.
Thanks a bunch bro!!