NI Komplete or something else?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
grunzlaut
Posts: 125
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:57 am

NI Komplete or something else?

Post by grunzlaut » Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:57 pm

Hi,

I have some money to spend :D . At first I want to get me a new guitar, but thats not the issue here... I am making music with Live since about 8 months. Since that time I used the instrument racks included in Live, freeware Synths and samples I downloaded for free from all around the web.

I guess this self-limitation was good for getting started since it forced me to learn a lot of basics instead of surfing presets.

But now I want to upgrade my virtual gear.

What I want to have most are the following things:

-a nice fat sounding VA synth with loads of sound design possibilities
-an amp simulator for my aforementioned new guitar
-a big library with accoustic instruments, especially orchestral stuff and exotic string instrument
-glitchy effects to mess around with
-a niche sample player that is easy to use to further process the stuff I ran through the glitchy effects

I guess even If I didnt mention Komlete in the thread title most of the people reading this would come to the conclusion, that Komplete does the job for me. It includes Massive, which seems to be a pretty decent VA synth, Guitar Rig for the amp sim and the FX and Kontakt for samples and instruments

but there are two things that still keep me off getting it:

1.: the sheer vastness of this bundle. I guess you could spend years, fooling around with all the stuff you get without ever creating a single tune.
2.: a lot of people seem to have Komplete, and even there are so many ways to use all that stuff, maybe a tune produced with Komplete will lose a bit of individuality since its made with the same tools like many other tunes, too.

So, I think I cant go wrong with buying Komplete, but are there alternatives within the same price range?

One I thaught out was:

U-HE Zebra or ACE as Synth, Yellow Tools Independence as Sampler, Guitar Rig for FX and amp sim.

What do you think?

icedsushi
Posts: 1652
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:36 pm

Re: NI Komplete or something else?

Post by icedsushi » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:39 pm

IMO, Komplete is too big. It takes too much HD space & there's no way I'd ever get through half of what's in there. The possibilities are almost endless but that can be too much and overwhelming for me to wade through all the stuff I won't end up using. The more you get, it also takes extra time to keep updating & upgrading all the extra stuff that may or may not be used, keep that in mind.

I chose to cherry pick the NI stuff that I like the best & not have too much overlap of similar things already in Live. The upgrade path of the individuals vs Komplete probably doesn't cost me much less but it keeps me focused. I think it's diminishing returns when you get to a certain point.

Guitar Rig is really cool. It's definitely a good addition to Live even though Live already has some amp sims. Amplitube sounded slightly more authentic to me but Guitar Rig is more adventurous, kind of an audio playground. It's something I didn't think I needed at first, but now I wouldn't want to be without it.

If you get Guitar Rig and one plugin VA synth like Zebra or Ace for example, you've got most of the things covered. Everything else you mentioned is already in Live except perhaps the ethnic string instruments, which you would have to find a sample library for.

Whatever you decide, if you don't end up going with Komplete, I wouldn't worry about thinking of what could be replacement for all of that. Just go along one thing at a time & fill in the gaps what fits a need a that point in time. Then eventually you've built up a library of tools that are all relevant to what you actually use.
Last edited by icedsushi on Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Machinesworking
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Location: Seattle

Re: NI Komplete or something else?

Post by Machinesworking » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:49 pm

Komplete owner here, I like it, although I think if I had my way I wouldn't rely on it so much.
Also there really is something to be said for learning each instrument you buy, with Komplete that's a lot to learn right off.
The idea of buying a good VA, Sampler and Amp Sim is appealing. My suggestions based on personal experience and wish lists! :)

MachFive 3
Personally if I had the money I would get MachFive 3, it's an iLock device which is a deal killer for some.
It has some amazing IRCAM granular synthesis stuff, plus it's built like a modular synthesizer so you can create synths in it. Massive amounts of filters and you can use and import wavetables and a tone of built in oscillators. Huge library as well.

Zebra 2
Basically any synth from Urs and team. Zebra is full featured and not as heavy on the CPU. It's IMO not that difficult to get into, but results vary, it can be intimidating. That said ACE and Diva are both awesome too!

With amp sims I think that's a matter of you trying them all out, it's just like a real amplifier, you'll find that you like the Marshall sound over a Twin Reverb or visa versa . I use Guitar Rig, but I like the sound of other sims as well.

grunzlaut
Posts: 125
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:57 am

Re: NI Komplete or something else?

Post by grunzlaut » Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:00 pm

icedsushi wrote: I chose to cherry pick the NI stuff that I like the best

...but then I would end up buying kontakt (~350€), massive (~200€) and guitar rig (~200€), which would be way more expensive than buying the komplete bundle (~480€)...


...and I wouldnt necessesarily buy NI stuff: as I have mentioned the U-He synths or sylenth 1 (or maybe RP Predator?) seem to be very interesting too and idependence gets some really good reviews as well and has a 70GB sound library.

3dot...
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Re: NI Komplete or something else?

Post by 3dot... » Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:04 pm

Komplete. definitely. ACE too..definitely.
Image

grunzlaut
Posts: 125
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:57 am

Re: NI Komplete or something else?

Post by grunzlaut » Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:19 pm

Machinesworking wrote: The idea of buying a good VA, Sampler and Amp Sim is appealing. My suggestions based on personal experience and wish lists! :)
...yes and a decent beat machine -I forgot to mention this in the initial post. Hmm lets see: Komplete includes Battery...

But I guess thats not really necessary since I like Lives drum racks. I simply need a decent drum sample library


I really like to get all these Instruments seperately because I can get everything suited to my demands, but this probably would cost me way more than simply buying Komplete.

To narrow it down:

Komplete or a custom bundle of:

-A synth (U-He Ace, Zebra /Sylenth 1/ Predator
-A sampler with a good and big library -sound design features can be rather basic -I prefer fiddling around with synths
-An amp sim (maybe Abletons Amp -it costs only 74€ atm)
-A decent library of good drum samples (oneshots) especially samples of old drum computers and real drums

all for ~500€

login
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Re: NI Komplete or something else?

Post by login » Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:24 pm

I would go ace (zebra sacres me cause is too much options)

For samplers, maybe expanding your current ableton library with partner instruments...

Or get Komplete elements (you also get some basic set up in guitar rig) and use komtakt player to run other 3rd party libraries for kontakt,

doghouse
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Re: NI Komplete or something else?

Post by doghouse » Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:27 pm

Just because you get all that stuff with Komplete you don't have to install everything or use it all if you do install everything. :roll:

The price of course is a no-brainer, $100 more than Kontakt alone and you get all the other stuff! 8)

Komplete Elements is a waste of money. BTW most 3rd party sample libraries require the full version of Kontakt, though I've seen a few that will work in Kontakt Player.

grunzlaut
Posts: 125
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:57 am

Re: NI Komplete or something else?

Post by grunzlaut » Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:39 pm

doghouse wrote:Just because you get all that stuff with Komplete you don't have to install everything or use it all if you do install everything. :roll:
Yes and since I have a huge HD with not much on it yet this is even more true, but I want to see if its possible to make a custom bundle with aforementíoned components in the same pricerange like Komplete.

grunzlaut
Posts: 125
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:57 am

Re: NI Komplete or something else?

Post by grunzlaut » Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:45 pm

login wrote:
For samplers, maybe expanding your current ableton library with partner instruments...
Yes i thaught about that, too and maybe getting sampler.

Machinesworking
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Location: Seattle

Re: NI Komplete or something else?

Post by Machinesworking » Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:03 am

grunzlaut wrote:
-A synth (U-He Ace, Zebra /Sylenth 1/ Predator
ACE it is then. :)
-A sampler with a good and big library -sound design features can be rather basic -I prefer fiddling around with synths
Well honestly then your Yellow Tools suggestion works, or get Sampler and buy libraries you want in EXS format.
-An amp sim (maybe Abletons Amp -it costs only 74€ atm)
Definitely demo amp sims.
-A decent library of good drum samples (oneshots) especially samples of old drum computers and real drums
There are a lot of libraries out there, I have Battery, GURU and a ton of freebies, so I've never had to bother, Goldbaby is highly praised though.


That all said, Komplete is a hell of a deal. My only regret with Komplete is NI's constant rearranging of where they instal libraries and their reorganizing of their proprietary preset formats etc. They geared everything around Kore and the .ksd format, then abandoned it and are now using entirely different libraries etc. I haven't upgraded in loathing of the mess that will ensue. They also tend to not allow current versions of their instruments to open up automatically in older projects, (in case changes affect the sound is the reason given) so keeping older versions of Kontakt, Absynth, FM7, etc. is crucial. When OS changes hose an older version you will lose a preset in a saved song on that OS. I would rather the sound of the preset have to be tweaked over having to figure out what sound you used in an older project if the OS has hosed that plug in...
All of this can be avoided if every time you upgrade to a new version you open all your songs and replace the older versions with the upgrade ( Kontakt 2,3,4 to 5 etc. ), but it certainly isn't as easy as dealing with Ohm Force or U-He in terms of older song.

I like their stuff, not fond of the organizational mess they make with each upgrade, so I'm on 6 until they have their "upgrade to 8 for 1/2 off" sale and announce 9 two months later. I'll deal with it then.

icedsushi
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Re: NI Komplete or something else?

Post by icedsushi » Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:48 am

grunzlaut wrote: To narrow it down:

Komplete or a custom bundle of:

-A synth (U-He Ace, Zebra /Sylenth 1/ Predator
-A sampler with a good and big library -sound design features can be rather basic -I prefer fiddling around with synths
-An amp sim (maybe Abletons Amp -it costs only 74€ atm)
-A decent library of good drum samples (oneshots) especially samples of old drum computers and real drums

all for ~500€
If you restrict it to that budget and view value being most important, then Komplete is the no brainer, discussion over. There's no other software combo out there that will give you that much stuff for the money.

I don't look at value for the money being the most important of all factors. Personally I to have a small collection with variety from difference sources that offers some eclectic choices or sounds not coming all from one package.

I would upgrade to suite (box edition) if I were in your position. It's on sale now for only $112 and that will have you covered for the amp sim, sampler, drum samples & basic samples to get you going with sampler. Amp might not be as comprehensive as Guitar Rig, but it's still good & included with Suite.

Then buy one of the mentioned synths above. That should still leave you with about half of the money left & you've already fulfilled most of your requirements. Get some additional inexpensive sample libraries, like Puremagnetik for example. There's still some money left, so buy Guitar Rig or a non-VA synth for sounds that you can't make in Ableton like Aalto, Largo, Absynth or Massive if you really like that one.

So:

Synth - Ace, Zebra, Sylenth 1 or Predator (pick one)
Sampler with basic features - Live's Sampler (included with Suite)
Sampler Library - EIC (included with Suite) + Puremagnetik + other 3rd party sample collection
Amp Sim - Amp (included with Suite)
Drum Samples - Drum Machines, Latin Percussion, Session Drums (included with Suite) Download additional drum machine oneshots free from internet.
Bonus - Guitar Rig or other 3rd party plugin

alex1fly
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Re: NI Komplete or something else?

Post by alex1fly » Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:41 am

The only person I know that Komplete had this to say when I asked him about it: "there's too much stuff and I didn't really like what I installed".

However, I absolutely love the MM Scarbee Bass (comes in Komplete).

If I had 500 to burn on music gear, I'd get really nice monitors and monitor stands.

If it was software I was going for, I'd buy sample libraries. Glitch sample libraries (since u said you want glitch), then just re-arrange the samples in Ableton or w/e program you use.

kitekrazy
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Re: NI Komplete or something else?

Post by kitekrazy » Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:57 am

grunzlaut wrote:
U-HE Zebra or ACE as Synth, Yellow Tools Independence as Sampler, Guitar Rig for FX and amp sim.

What do you think?
Stay away from Yellow Tools. Very bad product.

djadonis206
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Location: Seattle, WA.

Re: NI Komplete or something else?

Post by djadonis206 » Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:37 am

Get Komplete. It's not like you have to learn every instrument, today. It's nice always having something new to learn. I'm just getting into Reaktor and loving it. This is while Massive remains a go to synth. And maybe tomorrow I'll be like, what is this FM8?

Plus, there's tons of 3rd party preset packs out there for Absynth and Massive

You can't beat the value
Ableton | Elektron

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