Recognizing Live in a song

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Rabalder
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Recognizing Live in a song

Post by Rabalder » Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:30 am

Whenever I listen to some random music on radio or whatever and suddenly recognize:
-its made with live
-untweaked presets (synths, drum machines, ect)
-straight out of the box effects

...I get a little dissapointed :(

Is this a normal reaction, or would that be "cool, he using beatrepeater.." ??

pepezabala
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Re: Recognizing Live in a song

Post by pepezabala » Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:36 am

whenever I see someone making good music with a Telecaster guitar I think "great, I also play this guitar".

Why should this be different with Ableton Live?

oddstep
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Re: Recognizing Live in a song

Post by oddstep » Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:53 pm

i feel the same as Rabalder - I think its to do with wanting to hear originality and feeling disappointed when its not there. I used to feel the same about guitar effects - obvious flanging being one I remember - its like, yeah we know what flangers sound like, can you try to do something more interesting with it. Sound design isn't a big part of playing a telecaster - so there isn't the same feeling of underachievement if someone gets that telecaster sound. does any one use Live because they want that unmistakable Ableton Live sound?
On the other hand music is easily just as much about composition, feeling and context as it is about sound design, plug in use - so presets aren't an immediate aesthetic failure; particularly when its a new preset - so its still fresh off the block. a good song is a good song.

thass wat i fink.

Rabalder
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Re: Recognizing Live in a song

Post by Rabalder » Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:00 pm

pepezabala wrote:whenever I see someone making good music with a Telecaster guitar I think "great, I also play this guitar".

Why should this be different with Ableton Live?
But you wouldent sound 100% identical..
If you get 10 people to play the same guitar, they would all sound different.

Then you get those 10 people to record their playing, and use the same preset on a drummachine for a beat.
Then use the same preset on Reaktor Spark for bass line... You get the point...
In the end, its the original guitar recording that seperates the songs. Youve heard everything else a thousand times..

Bad example I know. :lol:

I think its bechause Im just as interested in the sound design as in the song.. :?

Rabalder
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Re: Recognizing Live in a song

Post by Rabalder » Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:02 pm

oddstep wrote:i feel the same as Rabalder - I think its to do with wanting to hear originality and feeling disappointed when its not there. I used to feel the same about guitar effects - obvious flanging being one I remember - its like, yeah we know what flangers sound like, can you try to do something more interesting with it. Sound design isn't a big part of playing a telecaster - so there isn't the same feeling of underachievement if someone gets that telecaster sound. does any one use Live because they want that unmistakable Ableton Live sound?
On the other hand music is easily just as much about composition, feeling and context as it is about sound design, plug in use - so presets aren't an immediate aesthetic failure; particularly when its a new preset - so its still fresh off the block. a good song is a good song.

thass wat i fink.
I agree.

Schmidi
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Re: Recognizing Live in a song

Post by Schmidi » Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:50 pm

You know what I hear a TON of... When people time stretch/warp with the "beats" mode, but they use it over vocals, melodies, instruments etc, and it sounds terrible!!!

dokx
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Re: Recognizing Live in a song

Post by dokx » Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:27 pm

Rabalder wrote:Whenever I listen to some random music on radio or whatever and suddenly recognize:
-its made with live
-untweaked presets (synths, drum machines, ect)
-straight out of the box effects

...I get a little dissapointed :(
Nothing wrong with it as long as it sounds good.

Angstrom
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Re: Recognizing Live in a song

Post by Angstrom » Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:37 pm

It's when you hear the easiest and cheesiest thing to do, that's when it's disappointing.
I hate music which is basically "what does this button do? *spoink* Hey,I'm a PRODUCER, where's my money!?"

fuck that.
that's make believe, great for kids but everyone else needs to put some fucking work in.

hacktheplanet
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Re: Recognizing Live in a song

Post by hacktheplanet » Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:32 am

Sometimes when I browse Beatport I like to play a little game called "Can you hear the Vengeance sample packs?!" :D
Image

kanuck
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Re: Recognizing Live in a song

Post by kanuck » Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:21 am

pepezabala wrote:whenever I see someone making good music with a Telecaster guitar I think "great, I also play this guitar".

Why should this be different with Ableton Live?
I think the better example of this in the synth world would be. "Where did that sound come from? Oh he used Operator?! Great, I also use that synth"

Saxer
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Re: Recognizing Live in a song

Post by Saxer » Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:43 am

it´s a side effect of the "expert idiot" mode.

if your focus is on sound design you get bored or even disappointed when listening to factory presets in a production.

if your focus is on composing you get bored or even disappointed when listening to the same chord progressions again and again.

if your focus is on arranging you get bored or even disappointed when listening to sample string or brass arrangements.

if your focus is on drumming you get bored or even disappointed when listening to rhythm machines.

if your focus is on drum programming you get bored or even disappointed when listening to bad sound and timing of a drummer.

if your focus is on lyrics you get bored or even disappointed when listening to dance music.

if.....

i could go on for hours... we all have that same problem.

Rabalder
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Re: Recognizing Live in a song

Post by Rabalder » Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:58 am

Saxer wrote:it´s a side effect of the "expert idiot" mode.

if your focus is on sound design you get bored or even disappointed when listening to factory presets in a production.

if your focus is on composing you get bored or even disappointed when listening to the same chord progressions again and again.

if your focus is on arranging you get bored or even disappointed when listening to sample string or brass arrangements.

if your focus is on drumming you get bored or even disappointed when listening to rhythm machines.

if your focus is on drum programming you get bored or even disappointed when listening to bad sound and timing of a drummer.

if your focus is on lyrics you get bored or even disappointed when listening to dance music.

if.....

i could go on for hours... we all have that same problem.
Im not so sure..
Whatever your focus is, it doesnt automatically dictate what you like or dont like.

Even though Im a good drummer, doesn mean I cant enjoy bad drumming.
All badly executed sounds/beats/loops can find its place in a setting where it does more good than bad.
But thats not the point!

The point is to recognize raw untouched digital musical instruments/etc coming straight out of the box.
If you tweak it a little bit the whole problem is gone.
Its when you dont.. Thats the point.

nylarch
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Re: Recognizing Live in a song

Post by nylarch » Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:12 pm

It's when you hear the easiest and cheesiest thing to do, that's when it's disappointing.
I've been really into the music of Robot Koch lately....who uses Live 100% btw....and produces beautiful dark beats music. But then his latest single goes all WUB WUB WUB WUBWUBWUBWUB BLLLAAAAAAAAHH BLLLLLLLLLAHHHHHH BLLLLLLAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH WUB WUB WUB.

Not saying that's easy to do, just incredibly annoying. But then again, I'm old.
MacBook Pro; Live 8 Suite, Reaktor; '77 Fender Jazz Bass; Apogee One;

MarkH
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Re: Recognizing Live in a song

Post by MarkH » Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:22 am

the_planet wrote:Sometimes when I browse Beatport I like to play a little game called "Can you hear the Vengeance sample packs?!" :D
Their one shots are great. I find that taking the no-kick-loops and using volume envelopes to mute certain parts works pretty well. You can usually retain some syncopation of the hi-hats while cutting out other (possibly more recognizable) parts. Sampler was one of my most under-utilized instruments in Live until I started taking some of the "melodies" from certain Vengeance sample packs, dragging into Sampler and then shortening, reversing, and modulating fragments of the sounds. This is a great new way of making completely unrecognizable sounds in Sampler from a sound source that is otherwise supposed to be "construction" loops. I started getting in the habit of doing this while on the plane because it's so much fun considering how many WAV files are included in the packs.
Accidents are the portal to discovery!

Muzik 4 Machines
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Re: Recognizing Live in a song

Post by Muzik 4 Machines » Mon Jan 02, 2012 5:24 am

i dont listen to modern music voluntarily but when i hear some i can tell almost every synth and fx used, and i try to concentrate on that because the composition hurt my ears so much

but i was having fun with a deadmau5 chord progression (ghosts and stuff) and loaded a live rack preset for dirty organ, cranked the drive and it was THE sound he used, i LOL'ed hard

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