Logic Pro 9 for $199. Futher pressure to lower prices?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
steff3
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Re: Logic Pro 9 for $199. Futher pressure to lower prices?

Post by steff3 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:21 pm

[quote="Machinesworking"][quote="Tarekith"]
A lot of people seem to forget this isn't some sale Apple is running, it's the new price for Logic. There's no rush to buy it this week, or next. Personally I'd be waiting to see what the next version of Logic brings (hopefully a LOT of changes) before I decided to buy and MORE IMPORTANTLY spend the time learning a new DAW.[/quote]
The MAJOR thing to remember is that so far the App Store has had no upgrade paths, so Logic X comes out next month and it will cost you $199 regardless of whether you just bought Logic 9, Apple are brutal about this, or at least have been in the past. I'll probably bite when Logic X rolls around, because I'm a shameless DAW whore. :oops:[/quote]

well, right ... what did the update cost before ? 199US$ or 199 euro (so it would be actually cheaper at 149 euro then the update before) ... What does Cubase update cost? What does Pro Tools update cost? I

So, it is not that it would cost more then it costed before (since Apple bought Logic). It is just, that the new program is not more expensive.

best

steff3
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Re: Logic Pro 9 for $199. Futher pressure to lower prices?

Post by steff3 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:27 pm

[quote="Machinesworking"]
Mainstage includes all of Logic's instruments! :)
You can either Rewire Mainstage into Live etc. and of course lose the ability for Live to host thrid party instruments and let Mainstage handle that.... or you can use AIC and Soundflower to route Mainstage to Live and just use Mainstage for Logic's instruments.

Before to use Sculpture etc. you had to own Logic and have Live as the Slave, now for $29 you get that functionality. I'm stoked because I haven't bought Logic 9 and Mainstage 2 is a big improvement it looks like.[/quote]

Well, yes, but as rewire does not support sending MIDI from Slave to Master this is nice, but not ideal. And also, MainStage is not as efficient as Logic, so, you need a fast computer (and that is what Apple wants - sell computers - and software).

But Logic is now cheaper than quite some VIs - if you look at it this way.

best

gjm
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Re: Logic Pro 9 for $199. Futher pressure to lower prices?

Post by gjm » Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:36 pm

Tarekith wrote:...Logic is a cool app but there's no denying it's a bit long in the tooth right now. It's a great value right now, but if someone was looking for another DAW to compliment Live, I'm not sure it's what I would recommend as things stand today. Something like Studio One or Reaper has a MUCH fresher starting point, optimized for today's computers and with a development team not afraid (or unable) to interact with their user. Like all Apple products, if you go the Logic route you pretty much have to accept what they serve when things are released, and hope maybe they're listening to users.

If so many of my clients didn't send me work in Logic Project files, I'd happily switch to Studio One for all my DAW needs outside of Live. It's not perfect, but it's almost as CPU friendly as Logic, and the team behind it does a great job of interacting with their users and telling people what's coming up while reacting to user requests. I'm a huge fan of developers who interact with their customers and make it feel like a team effort though.

A lot of people seem to forget this isn't some sale Apple is running, it's the new price for Logic. There's no rush to buy it this week, or next. Personally I'd be waiting to see what the next version of Logic brings (hopefully a LOT of changes) before I decided to buy and MORE IMPORTANTLY spend the time learning a new DAW.
Very good input. Thanks. Apart from the app doing what I want, seeing that the team/company/developers are interacting/helping customers is the next highest criteria for me when buying into a product. I was looking at Logic but actually this weekend just dusted off my Studio One Artist license.
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gjm
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Re: Logic Pro 9 for $199. Futher pressure to lower prices?

Post by gjm » Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:56 pm

Talking about Logic though... am I right in thinking that because you can get it from the app store I can load it on other computers that use the same apple account/ID? Not sure what apples policy was about either multiple installations or whether they had a maximum number of unlocks before you have to contact support. Live has 2, I see Studio One have 5.
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Machinesworking
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Re: Logic Pro 9 for $199. Futher pressure to lower prices?

Post by Machinesworking » Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:26 pm

steff3 wrote: well, right ... what did the update cost before ? 199US$ or 199 euro (so it would be actually cheaper at 149 euro then the update before) ... What does Cubase update cost? What does Pro Tools update cost? I

So, it is not that it would cost more then it costed before (since Apple bought Logic). It is just, that the new program is not more expensive
Well if you want the same package as Logic Studio which included Mainstage and Logic Pro, it will cost you more now, $199 and $29 VS just $199 for both.

mholloway
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Re: Logic Pro 9 for $199. Futher pressure to lower prices?

Post by mholloway » Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:07 pm

not to freak out before there's any proof, but I feel like this pricing has potential to shake up the entire music-making industry.....

before, a quality soft-synth costing $200 made sense -- like, say, U-He's Zebra, alongside DAWs with bundled instruments that cost 500 - 600 bucks.

but an entire DAW, PLUS a fully featured Sampler, drum sampler, and subtractive synth (among countless other things) for the SAME price as that one quality soft-synth? .... 8O

after a short while, seems inevitable people will say, god why should I pay $200 for these softsynths? isn't that horribly high when my entire DAW package costs that much?

...stating the obvious, I guess. but obvious or not, it seems incredible...

-M
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Machinesworking
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Re: Logic Pro 9 for $199. Futher pressure to lower prices?

Post by Machinesworking » Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:42 pm

mholloway wrote:not to freak out before there's any proof, but I feel like this pricing has potential to shake up the entire music-making industry.....

before, a quality soft-synth costing $200 made sense -- like, say, U-He's Zebra, alongside DAWs with bundled instruments that cost 500 - 600 bucks.

but an entire DAW, PLUS a fully featured Sampler, drum sampler, and subtractive synth (among countless other things) for the SAME price as that one quality soft-synth? .... 8O

after a short while, seems inevitable people will say, god why should I pay $200 for these softsynths? isn't that horribly high when my entire DAW package costs that much?
Well the one hidden expense of this is upgrade prices, it's obvious to me that Apple will continue to not offer upgrades, the App Store has no precedent for that. So Logic X will be $199 whether you own Logic 9 or not, while Zebra 3 will very likely be only a $25 to $50 upgrade price, but so far Urs has just added functionality to Zebra in updates! :) Effectively what Apple are doing is lowering the initial cost with zero change in the upkeep cost. I think a lot of people are going to be surprised when Logic X comes out and it costs them roughly $50 more to buy Logic X than to upgrade to Live 9.
It's a pretty decent model in that you can skip upgrades and not be financially punished. MOTU have always done this with Digital Performer, any version of DP to the latest version is $199.

I agree though, this is going to rope a lot of people in to Logic. A lot of people will be buying Mainstage for live use if all they need are backing audio tracks and some decent soft synths etc. Honestly about half my set is backing tracks with me playing guitar, and Mainstage would work just as well as Live for that purpose, in some ways better. That's a big one IMO, Logic has competition in Reaper on the cheap effective DAW market, but Live just got served price wise in the hosting soft synths with backing tracks category.

jer_mcclain
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Re: Logic Pro 9 for $199. Futher pressure to lower prices?

Post by jer_mcclain » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:54 pm

not to freak out before there's any proof, but I feel like this pricing has potential to shake up the entire music-making industry.....
There is only so much downward pricing pressure that companies like Ableton, Propellerheads etc. can tolerate. Instead of bowing to that pressure and panicking, they will continue to work towards product differentiation. Lets face it, Live has been expensive for a long time, people pay that premium because they don't see another product that can do what Live does. Furthermore, Apple can afford to do this, Ableton (or any other small music software company) cannot. Apple makes up for it in the hardware margins. I think people want this to drive the price of product X down, but its not going to happen, or at least to the extent that everything is going to be 199$. If anything this will mean a better value for that premium price which is good for all of us.
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JAMM
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Re: Logic Pro 9 for $199. Futher pressure to lower prices?

Post by JAMM » Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:01 pm

the only reason for the low price is to sell apple computers. Seems logic;)

for the rest....i use ableton because off the session view.
With that i can play live with a band on stage and also DJ. Logic can,t do that.
That for me was the main reason to switch from a classic type DAW to Ableton. (i used logic and cubase in the past)

Also i start composing a track start in the session and then i finish in the arrangment view....great integration off two worlds.
That way of working is important for me. Arrangement view also works fine.

So for me switching back to a classic DAW like logic is a step backwards in time and also i don,t switch to a different workflow or program only for a cheap price.

my 2 cents and good luck with logic;)

Bizon
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Re: Logic Pro 9 for $199. Futher pressure to lower prices?

Post by Bizon » Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:20 pm

Machinesworking wrote:
mholloway wrote:not to freak out before there's any proof, but I feel like this pricing has potential to shake up the entire music-making industry.....

before, a quality soft-synth costing $200 made sense -- like, say, U-He's Zebra, alongside DAWs with bundled instruments that cost 500 - 600 bucks.

but an entire DAW, PLUS a fully featured Sampler, drum sampler, and subtractive synth (among countless other things) for the SAME price as that one quality soft-synth? .... 8O

after a short while, seems inevitable people will say, god why should I pay $200 for these softsynths? isn't that horribly high when my entire DAW package costs that much?
Well the one hidden expense of this is upgrade prices, it's obvious to me that Apple will continue to not offer upgrades, the App Store has no precedent for that. So Logic X will be $199 whether you own Logic 9 or not, while Zebra 3 will very likely be only a $25 to $50 upgrade price, but so far Urs has just added functionality to Zebra in updates! :) Effectively what Apple are doing is lowering the initial cost with zero change in the upkeep cost. I think a lot of people are going to be surprised when Logic X comes out and it costs them roughly $50 more to buy Logic X than to upgrade to Live 9.
It's a pretty decent model in that you can skip upgrades and not be financially punished. MOTU have always done this with Digital Performer, any version of DP to the latest version is $199.

I agree though, this is going to rope a lot of people in to Logic. A lot of people will be buying Mainstage for live use if all they need are backing audio tracks and some decent soft synths etc. Honestly about half my set is backing tracks with me playing guitar, and Mainstage would work just as well as Live for that purpose, in some ways better. That's a big one IMO, Logic has competition in Reaper on the cheap effective DAW market, but Live just got served price wise in the hosting soft synths with backing tracks category.

Something that no one has really touched on is the resale market.

Yes, the price to upgrade is now higher and each subsequent version will have to be repurchased but this will also allow you to sell your old copy. What I think will happen is there will be a group of people who must have the latest and greatest version and another who will upgrade in a year lag from the resale market.

I imagine that last year’s version of Logic should run for no more than $100. This of course, is all assuming that a license can be transferred. With that said and what I know of Apple as a company, I am pretty sure they will not allow you to transfer a license. I hope this is not the case but I have a bad feeling it is.

jer_mcclain
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Re: Logic Pro 9 for $199. Futher pressure to lower prices?

Post by jer_mcclain » Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:21 pm

Yes, the price to upgrade is now higher and each subsequent version will have to be repurchased but this will also allow you to sell your old copy.
Can you resell an app from the app store?
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n8tron
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Re: Logic Pro 9 for $199. Futher pressure to lower prices?

Post by n8tron » Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:16 pm

Concerning upgrade prices...

Previously the upgrade price to Logic was $200. With the app store release there is no telling what they will do as far as pricing for upgrades. It could be anything from $0-$200. But at most it would be the same upgrade price as the old pricing structure. I've very curious about this though...

evon
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Re: Logic Pro 9 for $199. Futher pressure to lower prices?

Post by evon » Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:29 pm

Just saw this topic and I Wish I had a mac...9 of them for just $199 8O
fe real!

nylarch
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Re: Logic Pro 9 for $199. Futher pressure to lower prices?

Post by nylarch » Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:53 pm

Can you resell an app from the app store?
Was kind of wondering this myself. Seems like the old "you download it I sell you my serial" doesn't apply or does it?
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Liam
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Re: Logic Pro 9 for $199. Futher pressure to lower prices?

Post by Liam » Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:56 pm

Can someone explain if Mainstage is part of the Logic 9 download app - if it is why buy Logic 9 and not just Mainstage - if you can access the Instruments anyway?

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