Ableton Forum

"Logic Express" no longer exists. There's just one version now in Logic Pro.

Tarekith wrote:Compressor was also in the Studio version. Compressor and Mainstage are now seperate, Wave Burner has been discontinued. Not sure about Soundtrack Pro, though I think most of those functions are in FCP now.

I wonder what they're planning to replace Wave Burner's functionality with (or at all)? I use it quite a bit at my studio gig.

Machinesworking wrote:

kev herb wrote:well i must be fuckin stoopid or somit but i can never get to the bottom of the differences between studio and pro... i did finally find out but now could someone tell me: if i get just logic pro but not main stage for a while yet what would i be missing out on apart from logics own live performance set up? ie. am i missing any plugins by only having logic pro and not both?

Logic Studio was a package deal with Logic, Mainstage, Soundtrack Pro and Waveburner. Logic
Pro is the name given to Logic 'Platinum' when they included all the embedded instruments into Logic 'Pro'.
Mainstage is geared towards live performance, it excels at instrument hosting, but Live beats it in terms of remixing tracks on the fly etc. There are no plug on included in Mainstage that aren't in Logic of any real value, all the "pro" plug ins are also in Logic.
Logic Studio looks to be discontinued, Mainstage and Logic Pro are download only with the cut down Logic Express version, Sountrack Pro and Waveburner nowhere to be seen.

thanks for clearing that up for me so seems if thats the case would be silly for me to get mainstage as i already own live (a program built on live performance)

kev herb wrote:so seems if thats the case would be silly for me to get mainstage as i already own live (a program built on live performance)

Not silly at all. They're both live-oriented platforms but are very different in implementation and usage scenarios. It really depends on what you're doing. Mainstage like Logic has certain advantages when it comes to things like PDC, multicore, and being significantly more efficient with CPU compared to Live.

Tarekith wrote:Compressor was also in the Studio version. Compressor and Mainstage are now seperate, Wave Burner has been discontinued. Not sure about Soundtrack Pro, though I think most of those functions are in FCP now.

But remember, Kompressor Does Not Dance!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfoQj9kVnLU

stringtapper wrote:

Tarekith wrote:Compressor was also in the Studio version. Compressor and Mainstage are now seperate, Wave Burner has been discontinued. Not sure about Soundtrack Pro, though I think most of those functions are in FCP now.

I wonder what they're planning to replace Wave Burner's functionality with (or at all)? I use it quite a bit at my studio gig.

Hate to say it but it's probably going the way that SoundDiver went, with no information whatsoever. At least they didn't release a beta that made you think they were going to continue it like they did With SoundDiver. DSP Quattro and Wave Editor both work well to replace Waveburner.

pencilrocket wrote:Touch and hold function sucks. That's implemented for touch screen device as a desperate resort. Not for production stduio tool.

No it is not for touch screens. It is how Logic worked since way before tablets came along. It is a quirk in Logic, nothing more.

This thread has been an interesting read (pencildick notwithstanding), and I think I've been convinced that I should buy Mainstage, but there hasn't been much discussion on pricing.

For reference:

Reaper (Commercial) - $60 ($225)
Logic Pro (+Mainstage) - $199 ($223)
Studio One Producer (Pro) - $199 ($399)
Cubase 6 (Cubase Artist 6) - $449 ($249)
Reason 6 (+ReCycle) - $449 ($548)
Live 8 (Suite) - $449 ($699)

In terms of popularity, stability, and feature maturity, Logic is at worst #3, and probably top two. It's also second cheapest, or if you assume the commercial version of Reaper, it is the cheapest. Now, as has already been mentioned, when you're sitting on a mountain of cash like Apple is you can set prices wherever you want, sell whatever for cost or at a loss, just go crazy. Nevertheless, markets are markets and other concerns ignore competition at their peril; you have to try to compete.

Live's far and away the most expensive of the bunch, and these are the download prices, boxes come at a $150+ premium. It doesn't seem sustainable.

Of course, Live does things that the other apps don't (it also sucks at things that some of the others don't) but Ableton isn't perpetually entitled to that situation. What happens when Bitwig launches their product and its most expensive version is half the price of Live, or even cheaper?

I think too many people are pinning their hopes on some miraculous Bitwig product myself. Logic is a cool app but there's no denying it's a bit long in the tooth right now. It's a great value right now, but if someone was looking for another DAW to compliment Live, I'm not sure it's what I would recommend as things stand today. Something like Studio One or Reaper has a MUCH fresher starting point, optimized for today's computers and with a development team not afraid (or unable) to interact with their user. Like all Apple products, if you go the Logic route you pretty much have to accept what they serve when things are released, and hope maybe they're listening to users.

If so many of my clients didn't send me work in Logic Project files, I'd happily switch to Studio One for all my DAW needs outside of Live. It's not perfect, but it's almost as CPU friendly as Logic, and the team behind it does a great job of interacting with their users and telling people what's coming up while reacting to user requests. I'm a huge fan of developers who interact with their customers and make it feel like a team effort though.

A lot of people seem to forget this isn't some sale Apple is running, it's the new price for Logic. There's no rush to buy it this week, or next. Personally I'd be waiting to see what the next version of Logic brings (hopefully a LOT of changes) before I decided to buy and MORE IMPORTANTLY spend the time learning a new DAW.

Ryanmf wrote:This thread has been an interesting read (pencildick notwithstanding), and I think I've been convinced that I should buy Mainstage, but there hasn't been much discussion on pricing.

For reference:

Reaper (Commercial) - $60 ($225)
Logic Pro (+Mainstage) - $199 ($223)
Studio One Producer (Pro) - $199 ($399)
Cubase 6 (Cubase Artist 6) - $449 ($249)
Reason 6 (+ReCycle) - $449 ($548)
Live 8 (Suite) - $449 ($699)

In terms of popularity, stability, and feature maturity, Logic is at worst #3, and probably top two. It's also second cheapest, or if you assume the commercial version of Reaper, it is the cheapest. Now, as has already been mentioned, when you're sitting on a mountain of cash like Apple is you can set prices wherever you want, sell whatever for cost or at a loss, just go crazy. Nevertheless, markets are markets and other concerns ignore competition at their peril; you have to try to compete.

Live's far and away the most expensive of the bunch, and these are the download prices, boxes come at a $150+ premium. It doesn't seem sustainable.

Of course, Live does things that the other apps don't (it also sucks at things that some of the others don't) but Ableton isn't perpetually entitled to that situation. What happens when Bitwig launches their product and its most expensive version is half the price of Live, or even cheaper?

To be fair, only Logic offers as much instruments and FX as Suite, so you really would be looking at the first numbers. Cubase is bundling Halion now so it would be more.
Plus, the others don't compare instrument wise to either Logic or Live, though with Mainstage freed up you can essentially add Logics instruments to any of the Mac DAWs.

Tarekith wrote: A lot of people seem to forget this isn't some sale Apple is running, it's the new price for Logic. There's no rush to buy it this week, or next. Personally I'd be waiting to see what the next version of Logic brings (hopefully a LOT of changes) before I decided to buy and MORE IMPORTANTLY spend the time learning a new DAW.

The MAJOR thing to remember is that so far the App Store has had no upgrade paths, so Logic X comes out next month and it will cost you $199 regardless of whether you just bought Logic 9, Apple are brutal about this, or at least have been in the past. I'll probably bite when Logic X rolls around, because I'm a shameless DAW whore.

Machinesworking wrote:though with Mainstage freed up you can essentially add Logics instruments to any of the Mac DAWs.

I don't follow you here, what do you mean?

-M

mholloway wrote:

Machinesworking wrote:though with Mainstage freed up you can essentially add Logics instruments to any of the Mac DAWs.

I don't follow you here, what do you mean?

-M

Mainstage includes all of Logic's instruments!
You can either Rewire Mainstage into Live etc. and of course lose the ability for Live to host thrid party instruments and let Mainstage handle that.... or you can use AIC and Soundflower to route Mainstage to Live and just use Mainstage for Logic's instruments.

Before to use Sculpture etc. you had to own Logic and have Live as the Slave, now for $29 you get that functionality. I'm stoked because I haven't bought Logic 9 and Mainstage 2 is a big improvement it looks like.

Machinesworking wrote:

Tarekith wrote: A lot of people seem to forget this isn't some sale Apple is running, it's the new price for Logic. There's no rush to buy it this week, or next. Personally I'd be waiting to see what the next version of Logic brings (hopefully a LOT of changes) before I decided to buy and MORE IMPORTANTLY spend the time learning a new DAW.

The MAJOR thing to remember is that so far the App Store has had no upgrade paths, so Logic X comes out next month and it will cost you $199 regardless of whether you just bought Logic 9, Apple are brutal about this, or at least have been in the past. I'll probably bite when Logic X rolls around, because I'm a shameless DAW whore.

It's kinda like the price to join has dropped dramatically but the upgrade price hasn't changed. $199 would have been a typical upgrade price back when DAWs cost in the $700-$900 range.

Competition is great for the consumer , I cant wait till Wal-Mart releases a DAW . Low prices !