Mainstage with Ableton - First Thoughts

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
milfhuntr
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Mainstage with Ableton - First Thoughts

Post by milfhuntr » Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:05 am

I decided to spring for Mainstage since it was $29.99. I decided to save the full Logic Pro for some later date and stick with Ableton for now as the main DAW. But I am so impressed with Mainstage. The sheer quality of the sounds is the first thing, it sounds fantastic. There there is the high quality build of the program that is the nice minimalist design similar to iMovie or other intuitive Apple stuff. There is a shitload of sounds with this thing and the instruments are so clean. The piano is so damn realistic. I got out some sheet music again just to play the piano it was so nice.

UncleAge
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Re: Mainstage with Ableton - First Thoughts

Post by UncleAge » Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:47 am

I'll assume that those are not AU instruments that can easily be used in other hosts. However, how easy is it to integrate into Live? I'm pretty sure you can get that audio into Reaper easily. Talk to me, what can it do?

Machinesworking
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Re: Mainstage with Ableton - First Thoughts

Post by Machinesworking » Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:04 am

Cool, exactly the kind of person I was hoping would buy Mainstage, no copy of Logic in sight!

Logic instruments: Here's a small list, Sculpture, Ultrabeat, ES2, EVB3, EXS24mkII < -- this one is a super fast sampler. Are all these included?

When you Rewire Mainstage into Live it's always the rewire master so Live loses the ability to host VSTs and AUs, just making sure this is the case. Wish Apple would let Mainstage act as a AU plug in host in Live like Kore did.

Still even with having to use AIC and Soundflower to get Sculpture into Live with Live hosting VSTs etc. it's a great deal at $28. Mainstage for Live and DP users might be a little hit for Apple.

UncleAge
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Re: Mainstage with Ableton - First Thoughts

Post by UncleAge » Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:20 am

IAC & Soundflower is not all that clunky considering what you get in exchange. So for $30 I can access more instruments (comments on quality aside) than I can in Suite? If so this should be the no-brainer of the year. Seriously just about every Reaper, Studio One and Live user on OSX could benefit greatly from this package.

Machinesworking
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Re: Mainstage with Ableton - First Thoughts

Post by Machinesworking » Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:34 am

UncleAge wrote:IAC & Soundflower is not all that clunky considering what you get in exchange. So for $30 I can access more instruments (comments on quality aside) than I can in Suite? If so this should be the no-brainer of the year. Seriously just about every Reaper, Studio One and Live user on OSX could benefit greatly from this package.
Not to mention Digital Performer, Renoise, Numerology, Cubase, Energy XT, and Pro Tools.
I honestly wonder why IAC and Soundflower plus MIDI Clock haven't been bundled in some OSX version of rewire that doesn't cripple VST AU hosting in one of the hosts?? In fact if I could code at all I would be all about talking to the three developers about writing a script that handled all the front ends in a nice little package. My least favorite thing about open markets and generalized gnu licenses is the lack of logical products that are a possible "risk" financially. I doubt seriously that less than half the people who use computers for music on OSX wouldn't pay $25+ for a rewire type device that allowed both hosts to host AU, VSTs.

lapieuvre
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Re: Mainstage with Ableton - First Thoughts

Post by lapieuvre » Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:47 am

I don't think Apple knows how great mainstage is. They just killed the competition at this price.

Audiffex is 150$
cantabile, 139$
Forte, 120$
OpenLabs sells with a computer for 2000$, same for Muse Receptor...

29,99 for Mainstage? it does more than all of the above!!!
Mac OSX 10.13.6
Live 9.7.6 Suite
Live 10.1.2 Suite
Soundcards : FF800, Apollo Twin duo

broc
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Re: Mainstage with Ableton - First Thoughts

Post by broc » Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:29 am

UncleAge wrote:IAC & Soundflower is not all that clunky considering what you get in exchange. So for $30 I can access more instruments (comments on quality aside) than I can in Suite? If so this should be the no-brainer of the year. Seriously just about every Reaper, Studio One and Live user on OSX could benefit greatly from this package.
Keep in mind that IAC & Soundflower doesn't ensure sample accurate synchronisation and proper delay compensation.
So I think the benefit of using Mainstage instruments with sloppy timing is questionable.

Machinesworking
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Location: Seattle

Re: Mainstage with Ableton - First Thoughts

Post by Machinesworking » Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:25 pm

broc wrote:
UncleAge wrote:IAC & Soundflower is not all that clunky considering what you get in exchange. So for $30 I can access more instruments (comments on quality aside) than I can in Suite? If so this should be the no-brainer of the year. Seriously just about every Reaper, Studio One and Live user on OSX could benefit greatly from this package.
Keep in mind that IAC & Soundflower doesn't ensure sample accurate synchronisation and proper delay compensation.
So I think the benefit of using Mainstage instruments with sloppy timing is questionable.
What's questionable is Live's PDC in the first place, not that I'm knocking Live as much as PDC, too many times it doesn't work as expected to begin with.
For years people adjusted timing for PDC, for MIDI delay, for all kinds of things based on the feel of the track, not on technical specs, and I don't think it's arguable that lot of really great software based music was released pre PDC.
For drum patterns and such, yeah it might behoove you to stick to Lives Drum Racks, but even then if you trigger the sound via a MIDI track in Live with an external instrument plug in in the drum rack routed to Ultrabeat in Mainstage you should be able to hear whether there's a delay that's annoying coming from Mainstage, if you can't audibly hear it and are still worried then there's some property in florida you might be interested in. :wink:

What I'm seriously thinking about using Mainstage for is hosting guitar and keyboard instruments and FX I play live, Live takes far to long to load new setups and otherwise doesn't effectively offer an elegant solution to hosting say 13+ instruments plus Guitar Rig for a live show without opening new Sets. Live is great at mangling audio and rearranging songs etc. but it's a piss poor live instrument host if you want to quickly switch between ten or so instruments, not disrespect, just acknowledging that Live is lacking in this department where Kore, Mainstage, Receptor and other similar live performance hosts excel.

rikhyray
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Re: Mainstage with Ableton - First Thoughts

Post by rikhyray » Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:39 pm

Machinesworking wrote:
What I'm seriously thinking about using Mainstage for is hosting guitar and keyboard instruments and FX I play live, Live takes far to long to load new setups and otherwise doesn't effectively offer an elegant solution to hosting say 13+ instruments plus Guitar Rig for a live show without opening new Sets. Live is great at mangling audio and rearranging songs etc. but it's a piss poor live instrument host if you want to quickly switch between ten or so instruments, not disrespect, just acknowledging that Live is lacking in this department where Kore, Mainstage, Receptor and other similar live performance hosts excel.
Do you (or anyone else) have experience with it. I used to use Reason as my synth rack, as great as it is or might be now (I like the SSL modeled mixer) it became useless for stage since it needs dongle. Mainstage might be exactly what I was looking for as alternative.
Rewired to Live? Perhaps, but if I play live keys, guitars and percussion (real and pads) I might just make some backing tracks, since I wont have much time, hands, feet, brain to tweak Live anyway. So might retire Live as stage software when real music, playing is involved.
Will appreciate any comments from those actually using Mainstage, basic question would be what it is good /best for. So far I understand it is easier on CPU, faster loading, better instruments, better guitar FX…what else?

milfhuntr
Posts: 288
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Re: Mainstage with Ableton - First Thoughts

Post by milfhuntr » Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:22 pm

Machinesworking wrote:Cool, exactly the kind of person I was hoping would buy Mainstage, no copy of Logic in sight!

Logic instruments: Here's a small list, Sculpture, Ultrabeat, ES2, EVB3, EXS24mkII < -- this one is a super fast sampler. Are all these included?

When you Rewire Mainstage into Live it's always the rewire master so Live loses the ability to host VSTs and AUs, just making sure this is the case. Wish Apple would let Mainstage act as a AU plug in host in Live like Kore did.

Still even with having to use AIC and Soundflower to get Sculpture into Live with Live hosting VSTs etc. it's a great deal at $28. Mainstage for Live and DP users might be a little hit for Apple.

Interesting vids on how to use Mainstage with Live:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHsbaMAKDe8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ixj-DiaB1s

milfhuntr
Posts: 288
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:19 pm

Re: Mainstage with Ableton - First Thoughts

Post by milfhuntr » Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:24 pm

lapieuvre wrote:I don't think Apple knows how great mainstage is. They just killed the competition at this price.

Audiffex is 150$
cantabile, 139$
Forte, 120$
OpenLabs sells with a computer for 2000$, same for Muse Receptor...

29,99 for Mainstage? it does more than all of the above!!!

I have been downloading and installing the content all night long. This thing is never ending - reminds one of Komplete, except the sound quality is better on many of the acoustic instruments. This piano is very very good. I don't want to say unreal yet but with the fx and stuff on . . . very very good.

UncleAge
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Re: Mainstage with Ableton - First Thoughts

Post by UncleAge » Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:29 pm

broc wrote:
UncleAge wrote:IAC & Soundflower is not all that clunky considering what you get in exchange. So for $30 I can access more instruments (comments on quality aside) than I can in Suite? If so this should be the no-brainer of the year. Seriously just about every Reaper, Studio One and Live user on OSX could benefit greatly from this package.
Keep in mind that IAC & Soundflower doesn't ensure sample accurate synchronisation and proper delay compensation.
So I think the benefit of using Mainstage instruments with sloppy timing is questionable.
I don't perform live. I hope I can work around this issue. However, your warning is duly noted. Thanks.

friend_kami
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Re: Mainstage with Ableton - First Thoughts

Post by friend_kami » Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:58 pm

yet another reason to try again to hackintosh my laptop until i can afford a proper mac eh.

pencilrocket
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Re: Mainstage with Ableton - First Thoughts

Post by pencilrocket » Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:13 pm

lapieuvre wrote: Audiffex is 150$
cantabile, 139$
Forte, 120$
OpenLabs sells with a computer for 2000$, same for Muse Receptor...
No objective audio quality comparison other than subjective apple's shit hype? I'm already fed up with that type of information which have been resulted in being recognized as hypes for a decade.
Image

lapieuvre
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Re: Mainstage with Ableton - First Thoughts

Post by lapieuvre » Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:21 pm

pencilrocket wrote:
lapieuvre wrote: Audiffex is 150$
cantabile, 139$
Forte, 120$
OpenLabs sells with a computer for 2000$, same for Muse Receptor...
No objective audio quality comparison other than subjective apple's shit hype? I'm already fed up with that type of information which have been resulted in being recognized as hypes for a decade.
What do you mean?
Mac OSX 10.13.6
Live 9.7.6 Suite
Live 10.1.2 Suite
Soundcards : FF800, Apollo Twin duo

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