What's the next best thing to live

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
3dot...
Posts: 9996
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:10 pm

Re: What's the next best thing to live

Post by 3dot... » Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:01 pm

fx23 wrote:for me this is:
Sensomusic Usine

without a shadow of a doubt.
...so you say Usine can replace Live in functionality ?
it's 50% off right now...
which means 60euros..
I have to admit that Usine is very impressive..
I'll have to re-check it.. last time I tried the free version was years ago..
Image

starving student
Posts: 7123
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 6:13 pm
Location: right here

Re: What's the next best thing to live

Post by starving student » Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:38 pm

3dot... wrote:
fx23 wrote:for me this is:
Sensomusic Usine

without a shadow of a doubt.
...so you say Usine can replace Live in functionality ?
it's 50% off right now...
which means 60euros..
I have to admit that Usine is very impressive..
I'll have to re-check it.. last time I tried the free version was years ago..
shit Usine is lookin mighty fresh right about now, it's been forever since I looked at it and I wasn't feelin it back then but now it's like this suped up energy xt, live, ipadish, lookin thingy. depending on how easy it is to get your head around this might be fun to have just for the sake of inspiration of a different nature, I could see maybe bouncing back and forth between Live, renoise, usine, and maschine and having a good time.

so how easy is usine to use

starving student
Posts: 7123
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 6:13 pm
Location: right here

Re: What's the next best thing to live

Post by starving student » Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:39 pm

btw it bothers me when demos and background music don't match

fx23
Posts: 798
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:23 pm

Re: What's the next best thing to live

Post by fx23 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:20 pm

well let me be clear usine is a totally different beast than live, it could totally replace it in many tasks, but i would'nt say
it's something that replace live in all aspects. (ie complex warping isn't really there yet and user friendly, but you can warp) in my case i still use a combo, sometimes only live, sometimes only usine, and most of the time usine as vsti inside of live.

i didn't gave up live because for basic 'classical' stuff live remain unmatched in terms of getting quick sketching results in session. every live stuff is very simple, easy and fast. ie racks, drum racks, session ect.. but you get quick limited.
In Usine, it takes you a bit of time at first to build your own patchs, but then they behave exactly as you want. ie i got something that let me swich VSTs over time, change my fx orders, recall XXX differents snapshots ect on a single track, wich is totally impossible in live without preloading xxx chains that ruin cpu. i earn CPU, RAM and get millions of possibilities live couldn't offer on it's own.
So it took me a while to patch it, but now i earn time. As well i got a circular recording of CCs so i just tweak my knob and got instantaneously the result for my clip, again impossible in live and now i earn some time and inspiration rather than rec in arrange, copy paste back to clip bla bla..the so famous automation to session.

imo as soon as you want more 'personnal stuff', specific features, or experimental tweaks without getting pricey M4L and the complex learning curve of Max, usine really shines. i tried Max and it wasn't a pleasure to patch with it for me, wherease since day one i started usine i felt in love with it. and for full live/instrument type playing, im slowly moving (i never thought i would), to a full usine only setup). as exemple i completely recreate my own multitouch scalable session view with automation as im fed up waiting abes dare to implement it. mind ya they will maybe finally bring it in L9 when i will just have finished it, anyway, i got snaphots, LFos to anything and dynamic load/unload ready. then im free to bounce and get back stuff in live or not.

Usine is extreme modular, live is extreme simplicity. to summup i would say it's an in-between MAX and live in a single product, or a striped down version of live+m4L 10x cheaper, with extra functionalities such as multitouch. it's not as complex as Max, yet imo offering as smuch modularity, see more possibilities than max as the daw, mixer ect functionalities are integrated, but it's clearly not as user friendly as live. it request the user to reflect,work and find/make it's own adapted path to allow millions of possibilities, it's not ready for you as you open it, even if it comes with loads of exemples to help ya.
but another great thing is, let say you build a custom drum machine, you can export it as vst. then you open live and you got your own drum machine as vst. that f...ng rocks.

It's clearly not for noobs. it's for people that have a tiny background in logical/modular and basic math stuff, depending on the complexity of what you wanna build. but if feel sometimes limited/curious and want feel free to build your custom midi/audio setup/controllers/fx chains/sidechains ect go for it. Like any modular it has a learning curve, but really it took me one month to feel good, and it has now very well made tutorials. whereas i never could be fine with max or reaktor way of patching personally.
it seem extra logical to me. 59e is an awesome price imo, but just get the free demo, make the tutos, try it one month and see if it's for you or not.

starving student
Posts: 7123
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 6:13 pm
Location: right here

Re: What's the next best thing to live

Post by starving student » Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:37 pm

that was a great explanation about usine I really appreciate it, makes things much clearer.

fx23
Posts: 798
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:23 pm

Re: What's the next best thing to live

Post by fx23 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:58 pm

y're welcome. btwn it's really hard to describe usine, it's really a chameleon unique daw lol. every classical stuff looks less advanced than other 'major' daws, but on the contrary it's years in advance in so much areas for me... just try it if got time..even with free version there is lot of fun to get out for tons of various things.

trevox
Posts: 659
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:58 am

Re: What's the next best thing to live

Post by trevox » Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:18 am

fx23 wrote:for me this is:
Sensomusic Usine

without a shadow of a doubt.

_full daw that is the only one to play in that range.
_got a session equivalent wich is a matrix grid of patch that can be trigged as 'scenes' as well, and reced to arrange/sequencer.
_Patchs can be anything, with unlimited sub-patchs levels. from grain sampler, vstis, step sequencers, whatever.
_if you want something specific, you just build it in no time/limitations.
_work natively as stand-alone, or VSTI inside any daw.
_Any patch you make can now be exported as stand alone app, vst or Vsti to re-use in other daw, distribuate or sell.
_Full custom build of user interfaces, make shorcuts to what you really needs using knobs, sliders, arrays, 2D matrixs, XY ect..
_build custom midi controllers or bomes like translations with no equivalent.
_Modularity pushed beyond imagination limits, anything got I/O that can receive/emit data (ie lfos for anything, quantized trigz..)
_Out of the box gamepads, wiimote, kinnekt, any HID and video mocap as controllers.
_Out of the box Multitouch and gestures for all gui modules.
_powerfull scripting language and Internal wireless language if impressive list of basic primitives modules weren't enough.
_instant recall and morphing of any sets of parameters, including VSTs via powerfull preset manager
_ability to dynamically alter routings, even dynamically load/unload of vsts/patchs.
_full surround suport up to 32 outs.
_full OSC support.
_fully free functionnal version.
_ridiculous price for what you get (119e for unlimited pro, and a special promo @59e now!!! find something equivalent at this price!!! you won't even find something that got 20 percent of usine possibilities.
_The creator, a french guy called Olivier Sens is a great musician, and awesome intelligent and fast programmer. He really listen to users request and i would say 70 percent of requests end-up implemented in a better way you would have thought yourself.
He for long used Lemur,Max-Msp,and reaktor and was so bored of limitations he started to build his own stuff over 10 years, that summ-up a bit the thing...

have a look at free version, it's just free and let you see the potential of the beast. of course at start it seems a bit complex, but really it's not. but don't espect a noob interface a la ableton.. just build your own vision of your dream setup.
Pity it is not made for a mac as it looks great. Seems like a lot of effort has gone into the OSC side of things which I have started using quite a bit with my tablet. There are a few apps I have to use parallels for and it kinda annoys me as there are always niggly issues. And I am really trying to avoid using bootcamp. I might try the trial out and see how stable it is. Having said that, it is half price over Christmas too and an absolute bargain at 59 euro for the pro version!

d-track
Posts: 640
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:29 pm

Re: What's the next best thing to live

Post by d-track » Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:53 am

impulse tracker for dos
*-*

Muzik 4 Machines
Posts: 769
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:35 am

Re: What's the next best thing to live

Post by Muzik 4 Machines » Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:16 am

if live ceased to exist, for studio use i'd go back to logic(esp at this price) but for live performance i would go back to hardware only, probably get an octatrack(or 2 if budget allows) and a really strong MIDI sequencer, since all the rest is hadware anyway

dude rancher
Posts: 85
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:07 pm

Re: What's the next best thing to live

Post by dude rancher » Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:03 am

presonus one v2 is very cool. checking it out now for a couple of weeks the melodyne integration is amazing.

UncleAge
Posts: 677
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:50 pm

Re: What's the next best thing to live

Post by UncleAge » Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:52 am

trevox wrote:Pity it is not made for a mac...
At one point in time this past summer they said there would be a Mac version.
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... =usine+mac

I may (90% probable) roll the dice and buy a license at half price in hopes they get a Mac version out in the next year. I have always liked what Usine had to offer and the rate of development and developer involvement with the user base.

fx23
Posts: 798
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:23 pm

Re: What's the next best thing to live

Post by fx23 » Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:24 pm

I can confirm a mac version is on the roadmap, but it will take a bit of time. All modules are slowly but surely converted from delphi to C, then the crossplatform version will be possible, but imo its at least one year from now...

lot of users (i was) run bootcamp. you could get the -50 percent and then get cheap upgrade, or wait and see, there will probably be same christmas offer next year if mac version is not ready.

UncleAge
Posts: 677
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:50 pm

Re: What's the next best thing to live

Post by UncleAge » Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:05 am

It's almost 2012 and there still isn't a decent Mac compiler for Delphi?

trevox
Posts: 659
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:58 am

Re: What's the next best thing to live

Post by trevox » Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:43 am

Thanks for the responses in regards to usine on a mac. I think it probably is worth taking advantage of the 50% now. I do have a fairly decent Windows work laptop, though I am not really meant to be installing music software on it! I want to avoid bootcamp on my mac, so if I don't have much luck with parallels, I might do that anyway to have a play around.

Monchai
Posts: 132
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:29 pm
Location: Bangkok, Thailand

Re: What's the next best thing to live

Post by Monchai » Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:41 am

fx23 wrote:for me this is:
Sensomusic Usine

without a shadow of a doubt.

_full daw that is the only one to play in that range.
_got a session equivalent wich is a matrix grid of patch that can be trigged as 'scenes' as well, and reced to arrange/sequencer.
_Patchs can be anything, with unlimited sub-patchs levels. from grain sampler, vstis, step sequencers, whatever.
_if you want something specific, you just build it in no time/limitations.
_work natively as stand-alone, or VSTI inside any daw.
_Any patch you make can now be exported as stand alone app, vst or Vsti to re-use in other daw, distribuate or sell.
_Full custom build of user interfaces, make shorcuts to what you really needs using knobs, sliders, arrays, 2D matrixs, XY ect..
_build custom midi controllers or bomes like translations with no equivalent.
_Modularity pushed beyond imagination limits, anything got I/O that can receive/emit data (ie lfos for anything, quantized trigz..)
_Out of the box gamepads, wiimote, kinnekt, any HID and video mocap as controllers.
_Out of the box Multitouch and gestures for all gui modules.
_powerfull scripting language and Internal wireless language if impressive list of basic primitives modules weren't enough.
_instant recall and morphing of any sets of parameters, including VSTs via powerfull preset manager
_ability to dynamically alter routings, even dynamically load/unload of vsts/patchs.
_full surround suport up to 32 outs.
_full OSC support.
_fully free functionnal version.
_ridiculous price for what you get (119e for unlimited pro, and a special promo @59e now!!! find something equivalent at this price!!! you won't even find something that got 20 percent of usine possibilities.
_The creator, a french guy called Olivier Sens is a great musician, and awesome intelligent and fast programmer. He really listen to users request and i would say 70 percent of requests end-up implemented in a better way you would have thought yourself.
He for long used Lemur,Max-Msp,and reaktor and was so bored of limitations he started to build his own stuff over 10 years, that summ-up a bit the thing...

have a look at free version, it's just free and let you see the potential of the beast. of course at start it seems a bit complex, but really it's not. but don't espect a noob interface a la ableton.. just build your own vision of your dream setup.
Usine look interesting, but too bad I use Mac. Also it said in their website that it's not multitrack recording software. So what is it then?

Post Reply