Suspicious that audio degrades when exporting

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Post Reply
amc4042
Posts: 52
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:56 pm

Suspicious that audio degrades when exporting

Post by amc4042 » Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:09 pm

I use Live for transforming MIDI files in ONE mp3 file in a two-step processing:

1) load the midi file in a Live project. Assign vsti (Addictive Drums, Plugsound, to some tracks and Kontakt samples to some other. Export all the tracks to produce AS MANY wav files as track (say, from 10 to 20)

2) load the former wavs (10 to 20) in a new Live project. Assign vst effects to tracks (from Kjaerhus, Antares, Xcita, LP). Export to ONE wav file

So, listening to the 1) Live project playing results in a "different" sonic result (on my ear's opinion) than the 2) live project (disabling all the VST pluguins). Anallogally, after enabling all the vst in 2) the sonic result of playing the project is different than the resulting wav export.

This is a subjective opinion, but... I have experienced it many times and I think I am right. One further option might be exporting all tracks from one project and load it into another, fresh one. Add no vst and export again,... and so on several times (the more the better) and test resulting wavs (that can be distributed to other people to quest their opinion) and resulting sound from Play option

thanks

Tarekith
Posts: 17579
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:46 pm
Location: Ableton Forum Administrator
Contact:

Re: Suspicious that audio degrades when exporting

Post by Tarekith » Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:21 pm

Did you turn warping off for all the wavs in step 2?

amc4042
Posts: 52
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:56 pm

Re: Suspicious that audio degrades when exporting

Post by amc4042 » Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:16 pm

Well, thanks.

In Options, Warp states as follows (I am translating from spanish)

Loop/Warm for short Samples: AUTO
Auto WARP for long samples: NO
Default WARP mode : Beats
Create fade in Clip taile: NO

So, looks like warpping is disabled...

Tarekith
Posts: 17579
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:46 pm
Location: Ableton Forum Administrator
Contact:

Re: Suspicious that audio degrades when exporting

Post by Tarekith » Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:42 pm

Look at the clips themselves to make sure.

amc4042
Posts: 52
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:56 pm

Re: Suspicious that audio degrades when exporting

Post by amc4042 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:41 am

ok, the Warp button was highlighted in ALL tracks. Unticking them one by one causes some "magic", the track expands itself a few seconds (gets longer), and so is de-sync compared to the other ones (with the Warp ticked). Once all unticked they remain in sync, although the markers (well, the lines that appear when clicking Set) are slightly displaced

But sound quality doesn't improve because of that

I made some test and I think that what happens is as follows.

An evident track that degrades is cymbals. Whilst in the midi project the sound is neat and clear (Addictive Drums), the resulting wav from export is dirty (the crash lasts longer than in the original, and the sound floods the music...)

I noticed that the master volume fader of Addictive Drums (a vsti) was very high (say, 90%). Reducing it to, say, 70% and increasing the track volume resulted in a much better export (to my ear's opinion)

I'll do more testing

kanuck
Posts: 622
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:29 pm

Re: Suspicious that audio degrades when exporting

Post by kanuck » Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:21 am

this honestly sounds all very bizarre.. i've never had a problem about audio sounding different from before summing and after summing in live. Perhaps, are there any other settings on? some weird form of dithering (not sure if this makes a difference), normalize, etc.?

puzzlefactory
Posts: 360
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:39 pm

Re: Suspicious that audio degrades when exporting

Post by puzzlefactory » Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:47 am

So is it WAV or MP3 your exporting to (you start by saying mp3 and later talk about wav so it's a little confusing)? If its mp3, then there will be audio degradation due to the compression used to create the file (particularly the high and low end).

amc4042
Posts: 52
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:56 pm

Re: Suspicious that audio degrades when exporting

Post by amc4042 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:43 pm

thanks
I will do more extensive testing, keeping wav as audio format, and let you know

alekst1923
Posts: 83
Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 3:18 am

Re: Suspicious that audio degrades when exporting

Post by alekst1923 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:52 pm

Did you click the Hi-Q button? It's underneath edit and above transpose.

Post Reply