Vestax VCM-600 vs VCI-400 for Ableton?

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mickybeautron
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Vestax VCM-600 vs VCI-400 for Ableton?

Post by mickybeautron » Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:02 am

What would you think mostly as a live controller? (I'll be using it to make my tunes as live recordings in the studio too, init)
I come, many moons ago, from the dj'ing side, so at first I was drawn to the vci-400, being able to cue and scratch with the jog wheels, which comes naturally to me.
But I have a sneaking suspicion that you can't scratch/cue-in clips in ableton with the 400's jog wheels. I might have to use traktor to do that. But still the vci-400 seems real hands on,fun n direct, while the vcm-600 seems pretty much built for ableton, but doesn't look like a great interface if i wanna dj.
Anyone have experience with both?
or either even?

Thanks :)
MacBook Pro 13" i5 - 8gb DDR3 - Dual ssd - Live 9 - Apogee Duet - Adam A5x

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methodamericon
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Re: Vestax VCM-600 vs VCI-400 for Ableton?

Post by methodamericon » Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:03 pm

Maybe I shouldnt respond, for Ive never used the VCM600 or the VCI400. Feel free to correct me if Im wrong people, but I believe Lives audio engine doesnt allow for audio to play backwards. You were right, youd have to use Traktor, Ms. Pinky M4L, a VST scratching emulator, etc. That being said, Ive been looking at DJ Controllers for awhile now and the VCI400 seems like one of the best options for a traditional DJ setup. Lots of open end mapping capabilities, solid build, on-board audio interface, and I wouldnt be surprised if they release a Live overlay. Also, Ean Golden of DJ Tech Tools is reported to be working with Vestax on an Ean Golden edition. Now chances are, itll be optimized for Traktor [given DDJT's affinity for it], but soon after I could see them releasing an Ableton mapping.

As far as the VCM600 goes, it seems pretty neat. It seems like theyre on to something, but not quite there yet. Its been over two years since they released the 600, and I wouldnt be shocked to see a reincarnation soon... [winter NAMM 2012???] If your looking for a DJ workflow designed specifically for Ableton, its your best bet IMHO. But Im not about to shell out that kinda cash for something that just isnt that great. For that price, it should be a staple of the market, breakthrough product of 2010, or something. Dont get me wrong, buld quality supposed to be great, and when it was released many called it the APC40 killer. Now, I dont know about that, Id say the APC40 won that battle.

For what its worth, Im waiting for winterNAMM 2012 to see whats being released soon. There will almost certainly be DJ Controllers, and with the popularity of Live, it wouldnt be a stretch to expect an Ableton Controller of some sort. [A follow up to the APC40 and APC20? VCM600? Lauchpad? Or something entirely new?]

Also, the Allen and Heath K2 should be a show stopper. Its available next month. Im coming from the opposite direction as you, Ive produced for a few years and looking to get into the live/dj act more. So im looking form something thatll work effortlessly with Ableton, give me the option to control whatever I want, and natively support the live enviorment and feel of djing. The K2 is my answer so far. Well see after people start trying it out and posting feedback online. After months of researching, endless reviews, forum reading, etc, for my next controller for Ableton, Im fairly sold on the K2, but if its releasing in January, then why not wait to see what NAMM's got up its sleeve, eh?

I dunno If i helped at all. Probably not. You just happen to be looking for what Im sorta looking for and thought I toss in my two cents. If youve never been to abletonlivedj.com, definitely check that out. Also, djtechtools.com. Take care! :mrgreen:
After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music. -- Aldous Huxley

stallos
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Re: Vestax VCM-600 vs VCI-400 for Ableton?

Post by stallos » Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:21 am

I have the VCM-600 since 2009 - its a great as a DJ controller for ableton
or you can use it in the studio for controller things
havent used the 400 but seems to be more geared towards traktor style DJing with its jog wheels. I mix ableton into tracktor and CDJs/Vinyl
You have a control for tempo adjustment and nudge buttons for brush the platter type control
The 600 has plently of buttons and is built like a solid 6 channel DJ mixer
Plently of extra controls for FX and sends etc plus a second bank of knobs if thats not enough
You can manually map it up how you like or use the automap style settings
My only beef with vcm is that it does not come with Enigma style midi editing software
I have a UC-33 which is much uglier to look at but with the enigma software you can control what midi cc and notes are sent out - on the vcm these are hardwired but if you were desperate to change these theres way to do this
The VCM is qyuite pricey for what it is but it has nice build quality and looks great in the dark with all its lights!

mickybeautron
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Re: Vestax VCM-600 vs VCI-400 for Ableton?

Post by mickybeautron » Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:16 pm

Thanks for the detailed responses guys :)
yea I reckon the vcm-600 is the way to go. It's half the price of the vci400 too.
I'd had the idea before of makin tunes and mixing all the parts in traktor making a megamix type thingy on the fly at gigs but i think doing it in ableton would be more versatile still.
Interesting vid of a remapped 400 in ableton but still the 600 is more suited i fink.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMoP1uDqiug
MacBook Pro 13" i5 - 8gb DDR3 - Dual ssd - Live 9 - Apogee Duet - Adam A5x

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mickybeautron
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Re: Vestax VCM-600 vs VCI-400 for Ableton?

Post by mickybeautron » Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:15 pm

Ages ago when my setup needs were different I had dismissed the Akai apc40, but just checked it out again and find it's better suited than either of the two vestaxs to my needs. Mostly because of the lovely clip launch section which the vcm600 doesn't have. Been checking out some templates and it's pretty damn versatile init. great price too.
Jobs a good un :)
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MarkH
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Re: Vestax VCM-600 vs VCI-400 for Ableton?

Post by MarkH » Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:08 am

+1 for the VCM 600.

If you haven't checked out Tom Cosm's Ableton/VCM 600 video on Youtube yet be sure to watch it.
Accidents are the portal to discovery!

mickybeautron
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Re: Vestax VCM-600 vs VCI-400 for Ableton?

Post by mickybeautron » Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:49 pm

Yea Tom's video shows some great effects routing on the 600 for sure. I think if it had a clip matrix instead of the scroll wheel/single clip button it would be awesome. Selecting clips with the little jog wheel seems a little fiddly in the middle of a live set. That's the reason the apc40 gets my vote.
MacBook Pro 13" i5 - 8gb DDR3 - Dual ssd - Live 9 - Apogee Duet - Adam A5x

http://www.soundcloud.com/pidgeo

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