App version of Ableton Live ?

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
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jhimm
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Location: Chicago, IL

App version of Ableton Live ?

Post by jhimm » Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:17 am

I fear there are already a thousand threads with this question, but several searches are not turning up anything obvious and recent, so I am risking a faux pas by creating a new topic. If I am err, please be gentle, I don't use this forum often :D

I know that there are many music generation apps out there. I know that many of them are in some way shape or form compatible with both smart phones and tablets such as the iPad. But as I understand it, these would work in concert (excuse the pun) with Ableton Live to produce music. What I am dreaming of is a stand-alone app version of Live itself, preferably for a tablet system.

I'm not a pianist, and I don't do the kind of drum'n'bass/break beat styles for which the various dedicated hardware boxes all seem to be optimized. I do predominantly soundscape and generative algorithm material which involves a lot of detail tweaking but very little in the way of on the fly changes (at least not in the way I see all the demos for all the hardware which is out there, again, seemingly specifically for d'n'b/break beat styles).

But what I do wish for is a way to enter MIDI information into a loop block without having to click it all in with a "mouse" (trackball, touchpad, etc.) because this is incredibly tedious and error prone. Being able to enter this information directly with one's hands (or a stylus I suppose) on a tablet type device would be much more intuitive and faster -- and of course manipulating dials and sliders directly would be a fantastic completion of the metaphor of the 2D mixing console GUI.

I suppose ideally such an app would work either independently or in a slave/master relationship to the full application on a laptop or work station. I was devastated when I found out the iPad would only run iOS rather than the full OS and would not be able to run real applications. I have been waiting for Apple to release a genuine tablet since HP began releasing them six or seven years ago and I'm increasingly frustrated at the delay. But, if one has an app to builds the bridge, then the problem goes away.

Have I overlooked something obvious that already exists?
Are there known plans to include such an app with Live 9?
Any speculation on whether it specifically will or specifically will not be compatible with Max for Live?
(If it were, that would convince me to finally drop the money to acquire Max and Max for Live as it would radically expand my generative algorithm capacity.)

Sorry to be so long-winded, I'm trying to create a fairly narrow conversation and avoid too many responses from people asking "have you checked out the APC20/APC40/NovaLaunchPad?" or "have you tried such-an-such app which is a great app for making music but isn't Live?" because those are topics I simply have no interest in discussing.

Tone Deft
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Re: App version of Ableton Live ?

Post by Tone Deft » Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:34 am

there are quite a few threads about this, this is what it comes down to:
the iPad is VERY weak computer compared to what we run Live on. people can barely get it to run on a full blown computer, how can you expect it to run on a little 1GHz microcontroller with 256 Mb of RAM?

then people discussed a stripped down version of Live and the conversation turned into how those stripped down versions of Live are like other apps. there are lots of cool music making apps out there.

same with Max4Live, forget about it running on the iPad. connecting wires would be REALLY tedious, it's already tedious with a mouse on a bad night.


nothing's to stop Ableton from putting something out there but it wouldn't be a full blown version of Live. in today's marketing it's best to have a presence in the App Store just like Twitter and Facebook. nothing has been leaked, just lots of unfounded speculation from the iFanboys.
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz

jhimm
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Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:20 pm
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: App version of Ableton Live ?

Post by jhimm » Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:21 am

(I've read what I just wrote and it comes off combative. I don't intend it to. But direct responses always sound this way in pure text. :oops: )

It doesn't need to be either a full blown version of Live or a feature stripped version of Live. This completely misses the point of what light weight computing is all about. This isn't about having a mobile app. This isn't about leaving your laptop at home and using Live while you sip a latte in a cafe somewhere. This is about getting serious composing work done with superior tools. Touch screens are superior to keyboards and controller devices -- this is why smart phones and tablets are systematically replacing laptops. Both are mobile, but the former have a superior UX. (Yes, they're also lighter and mildly more convenient, but that's completely off-set by the reduction in computing power, and yet they are still making huge gains in changing the way we work.)

This is about resolving the fact that Apple has shoved a touch sensitive screen into every product they make except the most important one -- their work stations. Think of it as a Waicom tablet that doubles as a monitor.

Think about the APC40. It doesn't run Live. It replaces your monitor, keyboard and mouse to provide a more intuitive (for certain kinds of music) means of manipulating the software running on your work station. Superior UX.

In exactly the same way, a tablet app could replace the keyboard and mouse (and duplicate the monitor) to provide a more intuitive means of manipulating the software running on your work station. Superior UX, not a separate application.

Yes, there are lots of apps out there for making music. But none of them -- as far as I know -- behave as a genuine direct overlay for Live. They aren't a superior UX, they're a separate way to compose. Which means for dedicated Live users who have zero interest in a separate way to compose (having already dropped quite a lot of money on Live over the years) there is a market space that a Live specific app can fill which is currently void and which would have no real direct competition. The business angle is hardly problematic and has nothing to do with companies feeling some kind of obligation to have an "app presence".

Chris / touchAble
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Re: App version of Ableton Live ?

Post by Chris / touchAble » Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:50 pm

Hey Jhimm,

There is apps out there that act as a direct overlay for Live - you should check out touchAble and Griid. Both incorporate the Master / Slave system and provide a touch-friendly duplication of your Lives session view that's running on the work station.
I'm not sure this is what you ask for - as you excluded apps that are not the 'real deal' in your first post.
Mobile hardware is still a little off from running a full blown DAW like live.. this might change with windows8 and the coming i3-i5 tablets though.

Chris

JuanSOLO
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Location: Shreveport LA, sometimes Dallas/Ft Worth TX

Re: App version of Ableton Live ?

Post by JuanSOLO » Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:39 pm

jhimm wrote:Touch screens are superior to keyboards and controller devices -- this is why smart phones and tablets are systematically replacing laptops.
I thought it was because marketers are phasing out reading and phasing in stupidity with the whole touch icon. It'll be like how they phased out memory skills because the phone remembers for you. I predict in a few years we're all gonna be really dumb and too forgetful to remember how good life was prior to forgetting.

touch screens superior? thats just perspective, I'd take a Doepher DrehBank over an iPad any day.

eflatt
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Re: App version of Ableton Live ?

Post by eflatt » Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:59 pm

Interesting...I can't put my finger on the OP's point exactly, but it has opened up my imagination to some extent.

Are you talking about an App to turn your Smart Phone/Tablet into some sort of controller for Live?
One good thing about music...when it hits..you feel no pain..[-Bob Marley....."Trench Town Rock"}

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