Panning single midi slices with reverb in the chain

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ArchDeacon
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Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:15 am

Panning single midi slices with reverb in the chain

Post by ArchDeacon » Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:41 pm

Hello, this is my first time posting on this forum. I've been registered for quite a while I can usually get the information I need by digging through through all of these threads but I had a fairly specific question and had trouble finding an answer. So thank you in advance for helping out if you can. So, basically I am working on a simple trap beat for a few of my friends to rap about hoes and what not so we can get on "dis here grind".

SOOOO, Basically I have an Acapella which I sliced into midi by transient. After that I added a nice chain of effects to the ENTIRE MIDI TRACK to make it pop a little more (the chain goes: MIDI SLICES>Saturator>Reverb>Compression>EQ). The problem lies in that the vocals samples overlapping at about 1:21 and then again overlapping MORE vocal samples over at about 2:13.
They sound good but I think it'd be much more interesting if I had a utility setup BEFORE THE CHAIN (***before because I want individual midi clips to be panned to different spots as to allow headroom). However when I set up a utility and apply it before the chain I noticed it doesn't pan very well. So I decided to run a test to find out why it wasn't panning correctly by moving the utility around different stages of the chain to see what the issue was. It turned out as I suspected to be the reverb that was taking audio from the left pan and centering it a bit which overall made for a really shitty pan. My question then is, How can i setup up each midi clip to pan differently from the other clips without the pan being effected by the reverb that comes later down the chain? Thank you again for reading and I hope your knowledge and creativity blows my mind.
Last edited by ArchDeacon on Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
www.soundcloud.com/ladecae
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JuanSOLO
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Re: Panning single midi slices with reverb in the chain

Post by JuanSOLO » Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:57 pm

If you want the reverb to pan along with the clip, and you want to do this with different clips, sounds like you need to put multiple reverbs for each panning clip.
HOWEVER, it's hard to decipher, you should post a screen cap of your racked devices. Are you slicing the acapella to a drumRack, or what? Being your first post it may take a few posts back and fourth to get a clear explanation resulting in solid help.

dday
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Re: Panning single midi slices with reverb in the chain

Post by dday » Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:52 pm

from what i can tell, if i were you, i'd copy the track and use the effects on the second track and take out notes from the first that you want to effect in the second. i hope that lands...good luck

oddstep
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Re: Panning single midi slices with reverb in the chain

Post by oddstep » Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:42 am

So, you're applying all your fx outside of the drum rack that is housing the simplers produced by the slice to transients command? If so expand that group track by clicking on the triangle next to the track name, find the relevant 'subtrack' and sort out the reverb and panning there. Another issue might be live's reverbs being mono. Check out the audio rack truestereo reverbs for stereo reverbs.

ArchDeacon
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Re: Panning single midi slices with reverb in the chain

Post by ArchDeacon » Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:41 am

JuanSOLO wrote:If you want the reverb to pan along with the clip, and you want to do this with different clips, sounds like you need to put multiple reverbs for each panning clip.
HOWEVER, it's hard to decipher, you should post a screen cap of your racked devices. Are you slicing the acapella to a drumRack, or what? Being your first post it may take a few posts back and fourth to get a clear explanation resulting in solid help.
Thank you for replying so promptly! I did what you said and copied the same reverb throughout each of the simplers holding the acapella clips before the utility plugin inside of the drumrack and I when I finished I was happy, until I realized I might go back and change the reverb later in which case id' later be faced with changing the setting on each OR copying and pasting them again and again. Of course I could just set the reverb in stone but you know how it goes...
dday wrote:from what i can tell, if i were you, i'd copy the track and use the effects on the second track and take out notes from the first that you want to effect in the second. i hope that lands...good luck
Thank dday! I dont think I follow you though. Couldn't I just put the effects in a return to do that? And even then I think i'd still be left with a reverb with incorrect pan.
oddstep wrote:So, you're applying all your fx outside of the drum rack that is housing the simplers produced by the slice to transients command? If so expand that group track by clicking on the triangle next to the track name, find the relevant 'subtrack' and sort out the reverb and panning there. Another issue might be live's reverbs being mono. Check out the audio rack truestereo reverbs for stereo reverbs.
Now this got my attention. HAHA! I completely forgot about the pan control on each individual clip in session view which rid me of the need for a utility plugin in this case or at least I think so(I also might screw around with phase). That leaves me with this true stereo reverb you speak of. unfortunately since I already put the reverbs on all the tracks and singularly this means I'm going to have to save it under a different name to work with those reverbs just in case its not the answer i'm looking for. However I have confidence that the true stereo reverb and my goal of a simplified chain are going to line up very nicely. Thanks again everyone I will post with the results!
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oddstep
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Re: Panning single midi slices with reverb in the chain

Post by oddstep » Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:53 am

one thing I've discovered about panning in racks is that the rack stereo placement has a subtractive effect on volume levels, whilst adjusting the pan on the simpler/sampler/whatever, moves the maximum volume about within the stereo field.
i.e simpler panned hard right- rack/session view panned hard left = silence. simpler panned hard right - rack session view panned hard right = full volume.

that should probably be obvious - but it wasn't to me. :?

ArchDeacon
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Re: Panning single midi slices with reverb in the chain

Post by ArchDeacon » Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:16 pm

oddstep wrote:one thing I've discovered about panning in racks is that the rack stereo placement has a subtractive effect on volume levels, whilst adjusting the pan on the simpler/sampler/whatever, moves the maximum volume about within the stereo field.
i.e simpler panned hard right- rack/session view panned hard left = silence. simpler panned hard right - rack session view panned hard right = full volume.

that should probably be obvious - but it wasn't to me. :?
I actually read about this last week in another thread! So the only true PAN in ableton live is actually the Utility plugin, right? Basically my entire effects rack is going to get raped today. A small feeling in my gut tells me that I'll still be left with an overage of reverbs or utilitys which kind of makes me uncomfortable but I'll still post with my new rack layout when finished. Thanks again all!
www.soundcloud.com/ladecae
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oddstep
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Re: Panning single midi slices with reverb in the chain

Post by oddstep » Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:45 pm

i'd say the true pan is the pan on the instrument.

ArchDeacon
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Re: Panning single midi slices with reverb in the chain

Post by ArchDeacon » Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:03 am

oddstep wrote:i'd say the true pan is the pan on the instrument.
Image
Basically what I ended up doing was this. I moved the original saturator and reverb effects from each track into one Sennd (A) and dropped a utility with inverted phase to Send (B) inside of the drum rack. Then I enabled send B to reroute audio to send A and ended up with a way cleaner setup. After that I changed the pan settting on each sample just like you said which was a lot easier to navigate and took away a lot of the stress I was dealing with in my original newb setup. I also took complete advantage of those stereo reverbs which I am going to have a lot of fun setting up in the future and started experimenting with the phase and width inside of a utility on send C and D to... I guess I wanted to have all the voices hovering around the listeners ears but i got a long way to go with all that stuff....Again I appreciate all the support on this forum and as always criticism is a must so if you'd like to hear the outcome, here is what came about.

http://soundcloud.com/ladecae/issues-aliyah-we-need-a
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Mac Pro 10.5.6, Focusrite Saffire Pro40, Pioneer s-DJ08 active reference monitors, Rode NT-2000 condenser.

Mr D
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Re: Panning single midi slices with reverb in the chain

Post by Mr D » Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:43 pm

Hi guys,

I'm new to Ableton!

In the above screen shot, i see lots of sends to the right of the drum rack.

I've never seen these before. How do i access this view? Is that built in to the drum rack and i need to expand the view somewhere?

Thanks! .......... Mr D.

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