All this about sound quality

[Hervé]

...and while some poeples are arguing, some others are making a life out of it. How weird (:

[dbfs]

For those completely lacking any sense of humour or irony I will point out that pretty much any discussion on this subject is pointless on a forum like this. Mainly because it accomplishes nothing but noise.
Yes there are issues with Live, no the weird angry public guessing games do not fix anything.

You think the devs are reading through thousands of pages of guesses, heated arguments and name calling?
What is the purpose of shouting vague unease into the void like this? That is why my above quoted post is dismissive, not because I consider Live to be flawless (it has plenty), but because I doubt the sanity of anyone who thinks they are solving anything by arguing on a forum where the devs aren't.

It's like trying to fix a motorbike by arguing about carburettors with unrelated strangers.
Magical thinking!

Just to be clear: I mail ableton about problems with the software all the time. Long and often annoying complaints about things I think are wrong (eg the weird 64 bit (double) summing that produces a 32 bit product on the track). However- me writing about it here will merely produce yet more sound and fury signifying nothing.

However, feel free to keep shouting at each other on a forum where the devs aren't.

I got a question for you! *Hand raised* *Hand raised*

Is it your post count that gives you a sense of entitlement to come into threads and start lecturing people about what they should and shouldn't discuss? Or does that come just naturally for you? I've always gazed in astonishment at these types of posts.

And if you could be so kind as to post your degree in a science, that would be great. Thanks!

[newboss]

For those completely lacking any sense of humour or irony I.

it pretty typical that a person that is so sensetiv towards personal insults like you has a very insulting "humor".

And that mobbing aproach you share with other fans makkes such threads noisy..

When ther wouldnt be any discussion demand such threads wouldnt pop up and i wouldnt be regulary engaged in them.

They have at least the good fx that one gets forced to do the anual test runs... and thats maybe time to generate prove without beeing payed.. because thats actually hard work..sofar it was enough for me to hear obvious sound degenerations myself.. test done..

And i am talking not about subtile things hear.. i talk about sounds flat and samplerate converted all over the place versus sounds nice silky and clear kind of differences that i had to experiance during the last years way to often.

Actually i pointed,pushed, kicked ableton to recognize at least 2 audio engine bugs thru the still ongoing development of L8. booth of them already present in L7 or earlier.

After all this discussion i will do some real tests again.. but the last fixed audio engine bug that has caused unwanted samplerate conversions is just month ago..

So all your audio perfection claims just could refer to the actual state because just a few betas back all you "ther is no ableton sound problem" guys was proven wrong allready..just check the latest change logs.

It´s a bit snowblind to call such discussions useless with such a short time since the last proven audio bug..

[dbfs]

Yeah, isn't the irony funny as all hell.. He comes to a thread and creates more noise just to lecture us about creating noise in threads... LOL!

Just another dumb ass on these forums, us usual. They get more retarded the higher their post count gets.

[JuanSOLO]

They get more retarded the higher their post count gets.

on more notch for you too

[dbfs]

They get more retarded the higher their post count gets.

on more notch for you too

See, your post count is already workin over time - You can't even spell "one." The first number your learn to spell at age 5 - Good job! You fail at trying to be a badass! You ain't ready to play with big boys!

[simmerdown]

hey, my hamster is retarded, i find that offensive

the arguement is fine, the placement is pointless

[Angstrom]

So all your audio perfection claims just could refer to the actual state because just a few betas back all you "ther is no ableton sound problem" guys was proven wrong allready..just check the latest change logs.

this is the problem you see.

nowhere do I say there is audio perfection and that is exactly the problem. This is what I am saying.

What I have said countless times is there are various issues, but massive bad tempered threads where people are misrepresented has no good outcome.

You characterise me as some fanboy who says everything is OK, yet in reality I submit plenty of bug reports and I send heated emails to ableton about lots of issues. What do you think I am complaining to them about? How great everything is? No.

My point is: 1: Yes there are some broken things, and some plain weird things, and some things that could be much better
2: long angry forum discussions solve nothing because everyone here has too few facts and no power to change anything

[newboss]

So all your audio perfection claims just could refer to the actual state because just a few betas back all you "ther is no ableton sound problem" guys was proven wrong allready..just check the latest change logs.

this is the problem you see.

nowhere do I say there is audio perfection and that is exactly the problem. This is what I am saying.

What I have said countless times is there are various issues, but massive bad tempered threads where people are misrepresented has no good outcome.

You characterise me as some fanboy who says everything is OK, yet in reality I submit plenty of bug reports and I send heated emails to ableton about lots of issues. What do you think I am complaining to them about? How great everything is? No.

My point is: 1: Yes there are some broken things, and some plain weird things, and some things that could be much better
2: long angry forum discussions solve nothing because everyone here has too few facts and no power to change anything

you wipe away any sensefull discussion possibility with your attacking posts and you allways sound like that there was no audio issues what so ever... your actions and attitude indicate that..

or am i the only one that missunderstands you so badly?

[simmerdown]

or am i the only one that missunderstands you so badly?

it seems,yes... you and dfhgs...just like in the audio illusions thread, there seems to be a general disconnect that leads to irrational posts

[dbfs]

But the threads keep coming up, don't they? And why do you think that is?

I'm going to take a wild guess and say - Because there are variables that are impossible to prove. In order for something to be fact, it has to be looked at, by all possible angles - even the ones we don't believe in. Otherwise its biased science and doesn't mean shit. Null tests are bullshit beyond a certain level. They don't work on big songs. And theres no possible way to even do it accurately within ableton because you cant even fuckin change the pan laws and try to get where you want to go. Thats a HUGE problem right there. And the discussion should end with. "None of us will never know." not "All DAWS are the same. Period" Bullshit - It's just not technically possible.

[JuanSOLO]

Just another dumb ass on these forums, us usual.

I know I'm retarded considering the post count, not sure what that means for you though.

[newboss]

or am i the only one that missunderstands you so badly?

it seems,yes... you and dfhgs...just like in the audio illusions thread, there seems to be a general disconnect that leads to irrational posts

??? oh wow.. irrational post to point out that one can hear dither in the adequate software and hardware enviroment? To bad, but thats just the truth. believe it or not.. ask bob katz or robert henke.

sorry guy.. you seem to be a little of your track in a blind " i love ableton" way.

I know that your type is resitent to reason and logic. So just forget it and be happy with your audio delusions.

[simmerdown]

hey, some respect for retards pls

[dbfs]

Just another dumb ass on these forums, us usual.

I know I'm retarded considering the post count, not sure what that means for you though.

Nows your time to shine! Lets see what you got! Since everyone is so good at speculating on this forum, you should have no problem speculating what my post count says about me. Go ahead and take a stab at it!