compression on master channel

[mickmike]

I want to use a bit of compression and limiting on the the master channel, but when i'm dropping the bassline in and out, there is a rise and fall on the volume of other instruments ( i.e hi-hats etc ). I know this is something for a mastering engineer, but for personal demos, I could do with sorting it myself. Are there any obvious methods of adjusting the compressor/limiter to do this, or secondly are there any compressor and limiter plug-ins, that smooth this problem out for me ? Thanking you

[fishmonkey]

what you are describing is a mixing issue, and definitely not something you should expect to be "fixed" in the mastering stage.

your master compression is punching holes in the whole mix because the bassline is pushing the compressor/limiter too hard. if you can't get the sound you are after by tweaking the settings on the master compression, then ideally you should be compressing the bass separately before it hits the master.

[DangerousDave]

Mr. Fish is right, try taking the compressor off and getting a decent mixdown first. Don't have too much happening in the same frequency range either (this tends to cause problems, especially if you compress hard) Once the mix is in check THEN you can add a subtle compressor on the master (the live preset gentle squeeze isn't bad for the master, it has a low ratio, a wide knee, and a quick release which is typically the settings you would want (disclaimer: this is my personal opinion) for a master bus compressor. I usually raise the threshold so that the signal is only attenuating a little bit, so really the compressor is just applying some pressure on the loudest parts of the mix to gel everything together a bit, nothing too harsh. I have heard bad things about live's limiter not being very transparent but I personally don't have the experience to say otherwise. Again I only ever use the limiter to keep the master from clipping, and it usually isn't even doing much (ducking the signal) when I do use one, (I would prefer not to use a limiter). So ya, get the mix as clean as you can and only use compressors or limiters if you can't help the tune in the mixing stage, or don't have time to sort it out or something.

[DJeeR]

Compression on the master should be very, very light - if used at all. As has been said try and get your mix properly nailed down first.
If you are going to use compression on your master, personally I'd go for a multiband compressor. It will allow you more control over the compressing of various bandwidths, and give you more creative control over just using a standard compressor.

[snakedogman]

You could try either a multiband compressor (live has one built in, or you could try the free Endorphin compressor from Digitalfishphones http://www.digitalfishphones.com/main.p ... &subItem=3) which will have selectable compression for seperate frequency bands (so you can compress low, mid and high seperately without one frequency interfering with the others) or a compressor with a high pass filter, like Cytomic's The Glue (it's probably possible to construct something similar with stock Ableton fx in racks, but I'm not expert in that).

[pgmjsd]

Another preset that works: "Mix Gel", there is some SC eq in it, IIRC. I use a threshold that gives maybe 2 or 3 db of compression. An alternative to a multiband compressor is the sidechain filter. Try a high pass filter if the bass is triggering too much compression.

However, Like DJeeR and DangerousDave, I'd just turn it off.

When I make demo mixes I render to stereo, then put it through some light mastering in Ozone: Roll off ultra lows, *very* light MB compression, *light* limiter. Just enough to make it louder without covering mix problems.

[Jabbon]

hmmm it really depends where you are gonna deliver. For example in a Live performance I usually use some compression (live inbuilt is quite good I must say) with a very low Thresh value (-3/-4 dB MAX!!! ) and a long release in opto mode, and add a limiter after it to push up the volume till just a hint of limiting is acting.

I find this combination adding punch to the whole mix but does not affect or cover mixing problems. Also what really is important is realizing that if the compression kicks so hard when the bass is there, but to your ears the mix sounds good, then your monitoring system is not tuned well...

If you want to go a little deeper then Multiband+Eq8+Utility + Limiter.
Live´s Multiband compressor is indeed a little bit more complex, and for Eqing, well that is indeed a matter of taste.
In theory the value which you should put into the limiter thresh is the rms value of the whole track. which is the average . something not possible to analyze in Live directly (course m4l is another thing)...
I do not suggest to implement a dual filtering function with just racks containing an autofilter because up to now all of these kind of racks I tried and built always colored the sound too much. I find the MB compressor´s filters much better.


these my 2cents

ciao

[ikeaboy]

An alternative would be to create mix buses for your bass and drums and compress them separately before the master out if compression is a factor for the overall sound of the project.

[JAMM]

Depends on the type off track or type music.

i use compression on the seperate channels.
sidechaning on the basschannels
the endmix a little bit into a limiter.
dancetracks more to make it pumping.

[mickmike]

lots of good advice. thanks. In experimenting, a little bit of multi-band compression from vintage warmer is gelling it together nicely. I like psp old timer as well, but need to be careful with it. I'm using a touch of voxengo elephant limiter, but am open to suggestions to other limiter plugs that don,t change individual track volumes too much. Plus attention to mix of course.

[Komodovaran]

I compress almost every element separately, and put a tiny limiting on the master channel to push that oomph to the max. Careful that the bassline is not too loud. If it fits your musical style, you can have a loud and roaring bassline if you punch it down with some sidechain from the beat.

[justchris86]

I compress almost every element separately, and put a tiny limiting on the master channel to push that oomph to the max. Careful that the bassline is not too loud. If it fits your musical style, you can have a loud and roaring bassline if you punch it down with some sidechain from the beat.

Same here. I just throw on one of the mastering effect racks on and put every thing on very light compression. Your levels and mix should be almost perfect before you start the mastering process. I think of mastering as the very last stage of the process and use it to get your master level as close to zero as possible.

[jpga]

This is all you need

http://rhythminmind.net/1313/?p=43

Download this and start make your own multiband compressor.

I made one with the glue from cytomic and it sounds great...

All the best...and good luck.

Jp

[The Carpet Cleaner]

You can compress pretty hard. Just don't set the attack to quick. And to solve your problem, roll off some bass ffreqs from you bass channel, and reduce its volume as well.
Your compressor is pumping because you bass sends too much energie to it and takes all the space.
Low frequencies take most of the space. Hence, reduce the low frequencies.
Then
Profit!

[mvkean]

Hey, I see this is from awhile ago and you may have figured it out by now but I don't think this question got fully answered on here yet. It's true that you must have a bass heavy mix in this situation but lowering the bass level is not a good solution if that was what you were going for. The solution is to send only the higher frequencies to the master compressor. That way you can set the compressor settings however extreme you need to without worrying about the bass overloading it. I haven't done it in Ableton yet because I do it in Reason with their built-in master compressor but there must be a way to do the same thing in Ableton. Basically you need to find a way to run a parallel version of the mix through a high pass filter (probably around 3k I'm guessing if it's EDM, maybe lower, but try to find the sweet spot) so that you are only sending the high/mid information to your master compressor. This will let you do much more musically beneficial things with the compressor, it can really bring the mix to life when done right. I guess all that would be considered a form of multi-band compression so worst case scenario you could probably use one of those to compress only the high end and get a similar result.